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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
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I know this post could have gone in many other threads, but I want to make sure that people see it. In most situations I wouldn't do this, but I have inside information on this situation and people should know about it. Okay, so as you all know there is significant evidence that there were superusers on Ultimate Bet as well as Absolute Poker. The evidence comes from around the same time period as the AP cheating. I've spoken with the guy who is, basically, leading the investigation at UB. I guarantee that he is working on it. I am 100% confident that it is a priority in his mind. For many reasons, he's more upset about the whole thing than anyone else that I've met or talked to. While I can't tell you a lot of what he's told me, I can tell you that UB is not ignoring it internally. In fact, the delay in resolution is not at UB itself. They've done a very thorough investigation and they're committing some very significant resources to make sure that it never happens again at AP or UB. More information about UB/AP's steps will be made more public over the next few weeks and months.
I reallllllly want to tell the whole story as I know it, but I can't. In fact, telling the whole story as I know it could jeopardize the whole outcome of this situation. Once the facts are revealed, people will understand why I can't say what's going on right now. You'll just have to trust me on that.
Okay, now that I've said what I can say, I also want to say this: If I were you, I probably wouldn't play at UB or AP right now either. I can perfectly understand the frustration on the part of the players in a situation such as this and I think it's perfectly reasonable to boycott the site until you're satisfied the site is safe. In fact, if you believe that a company that allows (not necessarily intentionally so much as ignorantly) cheating to go on at some point is unable to ever clean itself up, then you should never play at either site ever again. Make no mistake about it -- there was blatant cheating on both AP and UB in 2007 and if the players never spoke up, nothing would have ever gotten refunded or fixed. That's obviously inexcusable and it's up to AP/UB to show that it has made things right and that it will be clean going forward. So, to wrap things up, I believe in the current management at AP/UB. I think they want to do the right things. However, they're still cleaning up an enormous mess left by previous management/ownership. I assure you're they want this whole scandal resolved fairly even more than the most outspoken P5ers. Although it may be too much to ask, give them some more time to get everything in order -- imo, there's a good but unfortunate reason for why they've taken so long. However, for the time being, I completely understand anyone who wants to cash out from both sites and take a wait-and-see approach. It's exactly what I would do. -Nat
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Adam
(Costa Rica)
11,354
Posts.
Joined
12-21-2004.
05-03-2008 1:37 PM
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In reply to
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 mrdrevil2u: | |
I sort of suspected that Nat if he ever got sucked into the UB/AP public relations machine that he offered the Kool-aid, and well, Bottoms Up!
The leading spokesperson has is now the resident mouthpiece for the corrupt and unethical.
Whats next? New Management at Enron, wanna buy the stock?
Congratuations Nat for allowing yourself to be pwned by the greedy and unethical. Now go forth and spread their message. Tell us to give a poor multi-millionaire a break and give them a scond chance.
Dude, now you have zero credibility.
Well, I would say that that's extremely disrespectful towards someone who has never been anything but honest and who has consistently put players' concerns first for years. I would think that given his reputation and years of service towards this community, not to mention the fact that he played a key role in exposing all of this in the first place, he would at least be given the benefit of the doubt.
Who are you to say someone has zero credibility? Especially someone like Nat?
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| N 82 50 24: | |
Make no mistake about it -- there was blatant cheating on both AP and UB in 2007 and if the players never spoke up, nothing would have ever gotten refunded or fixed.
It all makes so much sesne why thepokerdb shows me down 184.96 in 2007.
Can I expect the 16k in volume I put in to be fully refunded? That would be a nice-ah spicy fresh-ah meatball.
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Calling out N 82 is ridiculous... he has earned respect, especially with his voice to the players on the AB scandal. Further, he still makes a respectable post as an employee of P5s by stating that he would probably not play on UB right now if he were us... when UB is a paying advertiser of P5s. Don't take it out on him.
With that said, I would never play on UB or AB again under any circumstances, or under any new management.
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I hate to agree with Adam...seeing how i think he deletes about 95% of my posts...but hes right..its nice to have one honest person in a corporation filled with douches, scumbags, and assholes...
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I second what Adam said. N82 has, at the very least, earned the benefit of the doubt, and the way I see it, merely giving him the benefit of the doubt is an insult.
It's my personal opinion is that he has proven himself to our community. Let us not forget that part of that proof was helping to bring the AP scandal to the forefront. He has given us no reason to doubt him. I trust Nat's word as gold.
Cliff notes: Nat is credible.
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"While I can't tell you a lot of what he's told me, I can tell you that UB is not ignoring it internally. In fact, the delay in resolution is not at UB itself."
Well without revealing other crucial details, what is causing the "delay in resolution" ?
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"mrdrevil2u wrote the following post at 05-03-2008 1:30 PM:
I sort of suspected that Nat if he ever got sucked into the UB/AP public relations machine that he would be offered the proverbial Kool-aid, and well, looks like its Bottoms Up!
The leading spokesperson for the debacle is now the resident mouthpiece for the corrupt and unethical.
Whats next? New Management at Enron, wanna buy the stock?
Congratuations Nat for allowing yourself to be pwned by the greedy trying to save their business. Now go forth and spread their message. Tell us to give a poor "unknowing" multi-millionaire a break and give them a second chance. Unknowing......I cant believe you put that out there.
Did you know Ken Lay the CEO at Enron said the same thing about what was going on there? He blamed all on Andrew Fastow the CFO and Arthur Andersen the accounting company.
AP/UB should share their fate. It wont as there are so many true believers and gambling sickos they'll somehow survive. They'll keep running thir ads, giving away free seats to big dollar tourneys. Their PR machine will spin spin spin!
Dude, now you have zero credibility."
How have you made it in life being so ignorant. Get a fucking clue, Nat is the one who exposed all of this shit, And he is letting everyone know that something is coming in the next couple weeks and we should know who's shit stinks and who's doesnt. And all the high rollers may see some money back.
ur a douche
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| mrdrevil2u: | |
I sort of suspected that Nat if he ever got sucked into the UB/AP public relations machine that he would be offered the proverbial Kool-aid, and well, looks like its Bottoms Up!
The leading spokesperson for the debacle is now the resident mouthpiece for the corrupt and unethical.
Whats next? New Management at Enron, wanna buy the stock?
Congratuations Nat for allowing yourself to be pwned by the greedy trying to save their business. Now go forth and spread their message. Tell us to give a poor "unknowing" multi-millionaire a break and give them a second chance. Unknowing......I cant believe you put that out there.
Did you know Ken Lay the CEO at Enron said the same thing about what was going on there? He blamed all on Andrew Fastow the CFO and Arthur Andersen the accounting company.
AP/UB should share their fate. It wont as there are so many true believers and gambling sickos they'll somehow survive. They'll keep running thir ads, giving away free seats to big dollar tourneys. Their PR machine will spin spin spin!
Dude, now you have zero credibility.
Even though I don't really think this posts deserves a response, I'll reply anyway...
You said: "Tell us to give a poor "unknowing" multi-millionaire a break and give them a second chance. Unknowing......I cant believe you put that out there."
WHAT? I never said that. I actually said the exact opposite. Don't give them a second chance. Make them earn a second chance. I don't want a single thing to be given to a company that was poorly run in a multitude of ways for many years. I specifically said that I don't think it's a good idea to play there until they've made things right (ie, refunds) and have also shown to the poker community that it's a safe place to play online poker. How are they going to do that? I am not sure. I am actually not even sure that it's possible for them to do so. However, I do believe in forgiveness and I am willing to entertain the idea of forgiving the AP/UB entity at some point in the future if they can convince me that they've made things right and that they've become a safe place to play online poker. Obviously that's yet to be seen and it's probably a long way off. That's a pretty big difference than coming out and saying "meh, no big deal, ignore that stuff, play there like an ignorant fool, etc" -- and if you don't see that then you're really missing a key difference.
I should also say that my opinion is my opinion. I respect anyone who says that there is 0% chance they will ever play on there again, no matter what happens in the future. It's reasonable because there are lots of places to play and there's really no need to give business to a company that was not trustworthy in the past.
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I wish I could say more but it's basically impossible for me on that point.
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You're in a tough spot Nat, a lot of people will probably give you shit regardless of what you say about this sensative issue. I think the majority of the online community realises how valuable you have been during this debacle and appreciates your hard work at getting everyone some answers.
Unforunately there are always going to be people that will give you a hard time because you became one of the major players in this thing. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that most of the internet is very happy to have someone like you working with UB on this.
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yes dont play AP guys, too tough with superusers
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| jtown1010: | |
I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that most of the internet is very happy to have someone like you working with UB on this.
yeah, most of the internet. i think i saw a "thank you, Nat!" editorial on front page of yahoo.com ;)
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| jtown1010: | |
You're in a tough spot Nat, a lot of people will probably give you shit regardless of what you say about this sensative issue. I think the majority of the online community realises how valuable you have been during this debacle and appreciates your hard work at getting everyone some answers.
Unforunately there are always going to be people that will give you a hard time because you became one of the major players in this thing. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that most of the internet is very happy to have someone like you working with UB on this.
Agreed.
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I meant the people of the internet that followed online poker FWIW. Poorly phrased on my part.
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