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UB superuser scandal
N 82 50 24 (Cayman Islands) 5,563 Posts. Joined 06-12-2005.
05-02-2008 9:36 PM

I know this post could have gone in many other threads, but I want to make sure that people see it.  In most situations I wouldn't do this, but I have inside information on this situation and people should know about it.

Okay, so as you all know there is significant evidence that there were superusers on Ultimate Bet as well as Absolute Poker.  The evidence comes from around the same time period as the AP cheating.

I've spoken with the guy who is, basically, leading the investigation at UB.  I guarantee that he is working on it.  I am 100% confident that it is a priority in his mind.  For many reasons, he's more upset about the whole thing than anyone else that I've met or talked to.  While I can't tell you a lot of what he's told me, I can tell you that UB is not ignoring it internally.  In fact, the delay in resolution is not at UB itself.  They've done a very thorough investigation and they're committing some very significant resources to make sure that it never happens again at AP or UB.  More information about UB/AP's steps will be made more public over the next few weeks and months.

I reallllllly want to tell the whole story as I know it, but I can't.  In fact, telling the whole story as I know it could jeopardize the whole outcome of this situation.  Once the facts are revealed, people will understand why I can't say what's going on right now.  You'll just have to trust me on that.

Okay, now that I've said what I can say, I also want to say this:  If I were you, I probably wouldn't play at UB or AP right now either.  I can perfectly understand the frustration on the part of the players in a situation such as this and I think it's perfectly reasonable to boycott the site until you're satisfied the site is safe.  In fact, if you believe that a company that allows (not necessarily intentionally so much as ignorantly) cheating to go on at some point is unable to ever clean itself up, then you should never play at either site ever again.  Make no mistake about it -- there was blatant cheating on both AP and UB in 2007 and if the players never spoke up, nothing would have ever gotten refunded or fixed.  That's obviously inexcusable and it's up to AP/UB to show that it has made things right and that it will be clean going forward.

So, to wrap things up, I believe in the current management at AP/UB.  I think they want to do the right things.  However, they're still cleaning up an enormous mess left by previous management/ownership.  I assure you're they want this whole scandal resolved fairly even more than the most outspoken P5ers.  Although it may be too much to ask, give them some more time to get everything in order -- imo, there's a good but unfortunate reason for why they've taken so long.  However, for the time being, I completely understand anyone who wants to cash out from both sites and take a wait-and-see approach.  It's exactly what I would do.

-Nat

 
 
 

dealace1 (Canada) 700 Posts. Joined 01-23-2007.
05-05-2008 9:18 AM - In reply to

From a business point of view it makes sense that they try as hard as possible to truely clean up shop. I trust Nat as much as I can trust anyone I have never met. I believe he is a good judge of character and has met the people that are cleaning this stuff up from an operational business view. There is no reason to doubt that they are cleaning up their operations.

On the other hand I also believe in the morale high ground that zpaceman is walking. The founder(s) that initiated and benefitted from the cheating are likely still shareholders and stand to benefit from any recovery. Do you want to contribute to this?

I would like to see him/them broke and in jail. If the current management team takes steps to get this/these guys charged with the crimes he/they committed that would be a good step towards proving that they have distanced themselves completely and doing what they can to make things right for those cheated. 

Anything short of this reeks of a good business decision.

 


spoonieluv40 (United States) 10 Posts. Joined 02-06-2007.
05-05-2008 9:48 AM - In reply to

Nat, a good question was brought up earlier about the KGC and their involvment in these scandals. How were they involved in the AP scandal and what are they doing now involving the UB scandal, if anything. Can we trust them as far as looking out for the average online player? 


jack 9 (United States) 64 Posts. Joined 04-24-2007.
05-05-2008 1:32 PM - In reply to

wowwwwww I wish i knew about this a while ago. I thought it was just absolute. Please tell me more info about the cheating. ty ch0p


JKamikazeKid (United States) 1,172 Posts. Joined 09-08-2007.
05-05-2008 2:01 PM - In reply to

Nat/Adam, 

 Just a question.  Even if UB or AP doesn't want to (or can't) discuss the issues surrounding this, why wouldn't they come out with something like this to assure everyone that this isn't being swept under the rug?   vvvvvvvv

"Due to continuous investigations, AP/UB can not disclose information to the public as it may compromise the investigation altogether, however we would like to assure the poker community that new AP/UB management is looking into this diligently and it is a top priority.  We apologize for the inconvenience and ask the poker community to be patient while we complete a thorough investigation to ensure these issues never arise in the future."

 I just think it's poor business to leave everyone in the dark about all of this.


Adam (Costa Rica) 11,354 Posts. Joined 12-21-2004.
05-05-2008 3:16 PM - In reply to

Hi J, I would agree.  I think it's in their best interest to inform the public that they're doing something about all this.  However, neither Nat nor I have any say in how the handle their business.

I will say that like Nat, I believe in the current management at that company.  I've seen it posted so many times over the years: "UB's new people are gonna make things better," and so I know how much it sounds like BS, and it would to me too if I didn't actually have a bit of an idea what's going on over there.  Things are different now, though.  It's being run like a real company now....thank goodness.

Anyway, if you don't trust them or otherwise have a problem with them, don't play there.  I've always said the same thing--I didn't get why the same people would post about how they can't stand UB week after week.  When I don't like a site, I just stop playing there--it's that simple.  Obviously the superaccount situation is a lot more serious and has broader reach than any of that other stuff, and we all have a very good reason to care that it gets resolved.

Anyway, my mind is open to improvement right now--I want them to know that when they get the ship righted, they'll see positive results.  I think the current management is moving in that direction--but it's a MASSIVE mess to clean up.  They'll get there.

 
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