Poker Discussion
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To all players who have encountered the situation, or some variation of it. Not to offend any of the talented youngins on the site, but I would like the responses to be post college experience, since college times tend to sidetrack on many tangents and influences.
Here we go, I am a 28 year old from NY. Career is on the right path, working at a large Investment Bank as a Credit Def Swap / Loan Exposure Analyst. Current salary around 200k. All things pointing in right direction. Have a GF for about a year now, and she moved in with me due to her living arrangements and work situation in past September. She is a great girl, who I hope to marry one day. Apartment is not too big, so not very easy to have your own space. Looking at a bigger place next year. I pay all bills and expenses for both of us (she is out of work currently)
Poker: I am a winning player, not too much time for cash games, played mostly the late nite party tourneys. Too put in perspective, I have won the party midnite 100.. 3 times in last year 10k -13k wins, with at least another 10 -12 final tables with results all through 2 – 10. Very good results in Big Sunday tourneys when I play, just not a big win yet. I won a couple of Step 5s for 9k when they first started on party. Those are the bigger wins, plenty of FTs mixed in for less. I havent played much in last coupel months do too the new living arrangements
Dilemma: My GF is 100% against Poker, says its gambling and does not listen to normal reason, even as I won a Party 100 last month for 10k right in front of her. Any logic which shows my winning against the avg player does nothing for my argument, its stuck in her head that she doesn’t like it. She is very stubborn about anything that she thinks is wrong… She does say however, that going down to Atlantic City on the odd occasion is OK. Just that playing online is ridiculous and gambling gambling gambling. She refuses to listen to any argument. Poker is fun for me, I love the competition, I love the math, and my record shows I can beat 95% of tourney players pretty consistently. I would rather play a late nite tourney than sit at a local bar with couple friends. Nothing has changed her opinion about this. I have offered a compromise of playing once a week, just a 100 or 50 tourney. She says playing once a week is like going to AC once a week, which would be crazy and unacceptable. I have hardened my stance recently since I believe she is going too far. This is my fun, and I am a winning player. She has said if I play once a week in one tourney it will threaten our relationship. I do not like being held hostage like this, I believe it’s a bit unreasonable to make the threat. But I can’t question another person’s opinion on it, it’s their opinion I guess, and they have every right to believe as strongly as they want.
Need:
I need to know what’s happening out there regarding this.. How have you guys handled the situation? And am I or she being unreasonable here. I am obviously not going to lose her because of poker, but I don’t agree with being told I can’t play because of someone’s flawed opinion. This is my fun, I am a 28 year old adult who pays all the bills and takes care of everything. All serious thoughts are greatly appreciated.
ginzorella
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hrk
(United States)
361
Posts.
Joined
11-26-2005.
01-04-2006 3:48 PM
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In reply to
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Very true. The only post you need listen to is the one by OMG WTF LOL.
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I got to thinking about this issue again and think we need to dig deeper into the problem and break the hand down a bit.
1.) Is she tight aggressive or loose passive?
2.) What has your table image been, does she see you as someone she can push around or does she respect you and realize theres a good chance you'll go All In.
3.) What % do equate to her bluffing?
4.) Do you have notes on her, has she played other hands like this in the past.
5.) Whats the rake at this game, game selection is very important. Its tough to beat the rake.
6.) Are there better games available or is this the only game in town?
7.) What are your pot odds?
8.) Do you have her covered? If so what are your chances of reaching the FT if you lose this hand?
9.) Is there anyone else in the hand with you?
Ok now lets see if this is a relationship worth continuing?
Possible Answers
1.) The opposite of what we would normally believe holds true here. If she is tight aggressive it might be hard to lay the hand down. If shes loose passive, think I fold here.
2.) Seems like she sees your image as weak and is trying to run you over, think you should make your stand here and push.
3.) Harrington says 10%, I'd be inclined to say a little higher in this spot.
4.) Only you know the answer here, but looks like a betting pattern in the working.
5.) The rake seems very high at this game
6.) YES
7.) Clearly your not getting the odds you need on this hand, your getting what $0 in return for a call. (probably the biggest indicator that this is a losing hand)
8.) You not only have her covered this is a clear situation of the fly swatter rule, Push.
9.) Now the equation gets interesting, theres you and her in the hand, as well as her "past" (note on past, manupulative people sight the "past" to prove a point) as well who else is in the hand? Do you think about any hot girls in the office while the hand is playing out, if so you may want to isolate on the hot girl. Just a thought.
CONCLUSION
This is clearly a negative EV situation and you can find much better spots to get your money in.
SOLUTION
Throw her cards in the muck and put her stuff on the door step, tell her she is out of all in protection, nh, gg.
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Going on 13 years of marriage, I know I'm old...turning 40 this year.
Let me tell you this....women constantly are trying to mold us into the man they dream about some fing prince riding a horse who takes care of their every need.
And what they say about the amount of sex dropping off once you are married is TRUE.
Therefore, my wife said to me last weekend, you are playing poker online way too much. My reply was, I will NOT play poker every day we have sex. She had no answer and I have played 5 days straight since that conversation and she is NOT mad at me, although I still want some (and will hold my end of the bargain, albeit 3 to 4 days a month of no poker).
Maybe set up a night or two (every Tues and Friday) where its a date night and you spend time with her BUT also set up equivalent nights (every Wed and Sat) for your poker playing.
GL in the game of life and and in your poker venues!
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A successful relationship/marriage is about trust and compromise.
Can you marry someone that doesn't fully trust you and won't even consider a compromise?
Bad news man... if you value marriage.
I'm sure she's a hottie, but you need to re-evaluate exactly why she likes/loves you. The view from the outside says watch out.
You said you wouldn't lose her to poker.
She said poker could damage the relationship.
You're willing to change/compromise... she isn't.
You deserve better sir.
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now for the humorous post and this is taken from http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
" #26 No matter how attractive certain members of the rebellion are, there is probably someone just as attractive who is not desperate to kill me. Therefore, I will think twice before ordering a prisoner sent to my bedchamber."
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ok, I'll be shorter while explaining my situation and what I'd do.
Me:
1)25, play poker and sports--I have no other means of income, not that could support me anyway. I own two houses for rentals.
2)gf who like yours, isn't totally on board. Unlike yours she knows better than to make demands like 'quit doing whatever it is I don't want you to do' and I don't even pay for all her shit. Lieks omeone else said, she gets shopping sprees and shoes (why they aren't considered the same thing I don't understand)
Okay, the way I see it, you should be her hero. You are the meal ticket. At this point, you aren't married and she really has no say when it comes down to it, so what would things be like when you are married and she DOES have a say? Sounds like a nightmare to me. Relationships shouldn't be about compromise, they should be about compatibility.
My advice:
1-I don't see room for compromise, so I'd either tell her this is the way it is, period. Or, take about 15k of what you won and say "I'm up this much already, so if I were to lose this 15k then I'll still be up and I'll quit while I'm ahead just for you."
2-if she doesn't go for that, and it doesn't sound like she will, then you should dig in for the long fight or give her the boot. If you can win this huge battle, you'll have a leg up forever. Like you said, there is NO reason for you to just give up something you like to do for a poor, uneducated reason. (uneducated because she is applying one thing that she thinks she know across the board)
3-bottom line is I'd bet against any of that stuff making her happy, so I'd think you can easily find someone compatible for you, and neither of you would have to compromise. At least on anything major that is.
Good luck and stand your ground.
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mjf21
(United States)
297
Posts.
Joined
04-07-2005.
01-04-2006 8:14 PM
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In reply to
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For everyone who is posting and saying stuff like, "dump this b!tch before it's too late!" or "relationships are about compromise and she should respect this hobby which you love" (and both statements are really saying the same thing, one is just being more honest), what about this - when you met your chick she was a nude model for photography and painting classes. She made a little dough doing it and she LOVED doing it. Well, when it gets serious, and you think you want to spend the rest of your life with her, wouldn't you be like, alright, I think we've had just about enough of this nude modeling in front of strangers? Of course. And let's face it poker/gambling is viewed by plenty of people in the same light. Both are totally harmless things, and if you're a good poker player, both things can make you a little side dough. But, at the same time, it's tough to look at it so objectively when you're in the situation. Do I want people to know that strange dudes ogle my chick's beave in art classes? HELL no. Does my chick want people (her friends and family) to think her dude plays poker on line like a degenerate (not what I think but again, what MOST people still think)? Of course not. It's about perception. By the way, my chick is not into nude modeling. . . ginz, bottom line, women are irrational, you won't be able to reason with her. Get a bigger place someday and resume playing when she's asleep or out of the house.
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BEEN THERE. Pulled insane hours at a NY investment bank while living with a stubborn woman who worked way fewer hours. Ate every meal at my desk, worked weekends, etc. It was a pain.
1) As you say, it's not about poker. It could be about any habit that she does not like.
2) If she is not happy, you will not be happy. If she so strongly opposes online poker and is stubborn, she will not stop nagging you. You probably will need to quit to keep everyone happy. I was forced to give up darts (yeah, darts, totally innocuous, but she hated it) for my woman.
3) Do not think that you can get away with playing just because she is asleep. It is the principle she opposes. If you try to do anything on the sly, you will get caught.
4) If you are forced to ditch poker, remind her next time she wants to change you that you ditched your favorite hobby for her. Even the stubborn ones eventually realize that you have made a lot of sacrifices for them. After that, they can accept the remainder of your bad habits.
5) Couples counseling = good idea. Seems to make women hellaciously happy. Most couples with major issues can resolve everything in four or five visits.
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Gin, I will try to keep this short, as so many have already very eloquently said much of what I would also say. I am 34, and have been married to my current wife for 4.5 years. This is my second (and last) marriage. Prior to getting married the first time I had always been very active. I had several hobbies and activities that took up a lot of my time. I was an avid outdoorsman, played golf frequently, played on a men's softball team, and I was a public school teacher and a coach. My first wife was very different from me. She had very few things that she had a passion for doing. She was very introverted, preferred to spend most of her free time at home reading and writing poetry. For some reason, though, we really hit it off when we met. I had never really been in a long term relationship before her, and to be honest I fell head over heels in love with her. As time went along, and we started getting more and more serious we began to have 'minor' problems. Most of which had to do with her resentment of my outside interests. She resented any time that I spent away from her when she wasn't at work, even when it was when I came home late due to basketball games that I coached WHICH WAS MY JOB. I quit the softball team that I had played for, I only played golf when she was at work (which she still resented), and I also seriously cut back on my hunting and fishing. We eventually got married, even though I was not happy about the sacrifices that I had made. I was not going to lose her because of hunting, fishing, golf, or softball though, and I was certain that I could make it work. I was never happy though, and she didn't know how to be happy. Four years later we got divorced and I felt like a weight had been lifted off of my shoulders. I had loved her tremendously, as it sounds like you do your gf as well, but after a few years of unhappiness it wasn't there anymore. I cannot tell you how much your situation sounds just like the one that i had been in. My wife today is unbelievingly accepting of me doing whatever makes me happy (to an extent of course). I do all of the things that I love to do, including play poker several hours a week. She of course has things that she likes to do as well. We spend a lot of time together, but also have our time doing our own seperate things. We often talk about other couples that we know that experience conflicts like the one you have, or at least something similar. My wife's favorite saying is..."they just don't know." They just don't know what it is like to HAVE and to GIVE independence, freedom, trust, and acceptance to their loved one. It makes all the difference in the world.
It sounds to me like your gf is giving you an ultimatum. I just do not see how any relationship can work when one individual is giving the other one ultimatums. If you really enjoy playing poker as much as you say, then you will never be happy with her if you have to give it up altogether. The issue is so much bigger than poker. You would not be losing her to poker, you would be losing her to her unwillingness to compromise. The fact that she is saying that you are being disrespectful to her by playing poker against her wishes is incredibly unfair and unreasonable. I realize that you have very strong feelings for her, but if she is not willing to try and see your point of view on this, then you will probably be much better off by just moving on. I found somebody a million times better for me. You will too.
So much for making this short, but I hope that it helps.
Coach |
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I'm pretty sure this same scenario came up on an episode of the Flintstones. If memory serves me correctly, Fred bashed Wilma over the head with a club. Seems like a reasonable option.
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It's interesting how your "no-poker-no-sex-ultimatum" ended in 5 straight days without getting any...
Maybe you should mix up your game a bit before going all-in so to speak....
;)
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bfull
(United States)
476
Posts.
Joined
04-01-2005.
01-05-2006 9:29 AM
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In reply to
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Aching Knee, your solution would never work for me, my wife would do it every day if we had the time and our 2 kids were not running us ragged.
I am 41, married for over 6 years and 2 kids. I work 40 hours per week. I play MTT's 2-4 nights pre week. I know my wife thinks I play too much, but she does not complain because she likes it when I win.
Ginzo, I think you have a serious problem and maybe you and your girlfriend should get some counseling. Communication is the key and it is better to find out now that it can't be worked out. Does not sound like you are going to change her mind on your own and I think without counseling and someone to mediate this will come down to a either/or solution.
Good luck
Bfull
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Cabo
(United States)
1,768
Posts.
Joined
02-15-2005.
01-05-2006 10:00 AM
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In reply to
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Your "great girl" has a serious leak in her game.
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