Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
PokerStars Game #13268809771: Tournament #67323357, $25+$2 Hold'em No Limit -
Level X (400/800) - 2007/11/16 - 00:26:47 (ET)
Table '67323357 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: PythalesLFB (1867 in chips)
Seat 3: NutPopper (7665 in chips)
Seat 6: Chrono526 (3968 in chips)
PythalesLFB: posts the ante 50
NutPopper: posts the ante 50
Chrono526: posts the ante 50
Chrono526: posts small blind 400
PythalesLFB: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chrono526 [9d Ac]
NutPopper: raises 6400 to 7200
----------------------------------------------------
this guy is a very good thinking player, so I know that he is going to be
pushing ATC in this spot. Knowing that do I make the call despite the BB being
very short. I know he has less than 3 BBs but, it's not as if he's all-in in the
BB or anything. If I call I'm about 60% against two random cards. Worth the risk
at this point. Tell me what you think.
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XXjondXX has the correct calling range above for if he is indeed shoving any.
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In the 4-man situation that you just brought up, you need one hell of a hand to call here. If he's shoving any two, call with JJ+ and maybe TT even though it's slightly -$EV.
If the BB would actually consider folding 3-handed then that adds an entire dimension to this whole original problem.
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Chrono
(United States)
162
Posts.
Joined
11-01-2006.
11-16-2007 12:10 PM
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In reply to
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I agree w/ the 4-man analysis you have.
I posted this hand on the pxf forums and everybody is convinced it's a must fold. But I'm still on the
fence given everything I know about both players.
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IMO the goal in sngs are to cash 1st, win 2nd. If this were 4-way with 2 shorter stacks than yours this is most likely a fold. But since you are itm, this is a 100% call since the blinds are so high, and how active a player this person is. Finishing 3rd in sngs gives about 2x your buyin back where 2nd is not a HUGE jump, so why ppl grind to finish 2nd is beyond me.
A very good sng player knows how important it is to widen your hands with the CL on bubble and ITM as well. A9 is very much over anyones range this late in 9-man sngs and this is never a fold.
Gl from now on
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That range looks way way too loose is that putting BB on 100% calling?
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You made the right call sir, no question about that. I encourage you to look closer/experiment with some 4-man scenarios. I'm not saying the A9 is a definite call on the bubble against NutPopper's obv. any two cards, but I make the call and I don't think it's a huge error to make that call, regardless of what people are saying on the PXF forums. Often my most profitable tables have at least three or four known PXF members seated at them, because they play in a predictable/mathematical fashion yet they have no idea how I'm going to play that day, which gives me a significant edge. All they can really do is tighten their pushing ranges a bit against me and hope I don't make a reckless decision (and I'll usually make a reckless decision that bubbles them and gets them steaming in the chat box). Meanwhile, I can decide whether it's profitable to push or fold to their blind because I'm certain EXACTLY which holdings they'll call with and which ones they'll fold, given their stack size and current standing in the SNG. Takes most of the guessing out of the game, and that's always a good thing.
In no way am I saying the PXF SNG system is flawed, but if you know people are using a system and you have a good understanding of the system they use, you can exploit it for profit. Conversely, if you make seemingly arbitrary call/fold decisions and change gears on your pushing ranges at seemingly less than optimal times, you'll have skilled opponents scratching their heads whether they play a hundred, a thousand, or ten thousand SNG's against you.
As for NutPopper, I fold the 8-2 there and I don't agree with his play, but it's not horrible. I'm shoving all but the very worst hands given his stack size and the blinds, and I'm fully expecting to get called by a better hand than mine.
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The BB will correctly call a very small % of the time, however, in reality that is getting called by the BB a lot, even if Chrono calls.
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Chrono
(United States)
162
Posts.
Joined
11-01-2006.
11-16-2007 2:13 PM
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In reply to
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thanks for the post albatross, you play alot of 27 turbo too don't you? I believe I remember playing with you on several occasions
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I love to play with Alba, but I don't because it's not +EV for me. I'll choose random players instead, thank you.
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I do play the 27's sometimes Chrono. And Jenn is far too modest. She could beat me on a regular basis and I'm fortunate that she chooses to attack softer games. +EV for both of us, I would say.
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There is no PXF system Albatross. There is mostly just discussion about correct push/calling decisions late. Some earlier play is discussed like limping AQ UTG+1 vs folding or raising in level 1 and stuff. Its kind of like a smaller version of the 2+2 STT forum but not quite as big or good. I am surprised you are not a member of PXF or SNGicons if you aren't, I thought you would want to know what some of your opponents are thinking/learning from etc.
Oh and about the actual hand, I would snap call if I knew he was on any two.
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I just assumed there was a system because their play is remarkably similar. They make almost exactly the same push/call decisions, at least at the lower stakes. I imagine the PXF players who play $100+ might be a bit more creative with some of their moves. I browse through the 2+2 STT forum from time to time so I feel like I have a pretty good handle on what my stronger opponents are thinking at the tables. And yes, I should probably join a training site but I don't wish to financially support a business that's attempting to cut my profits at the tables. If I owned a local grocery store I certainly wouldn't be donating a percentage of my profits to Wal-Mart so they can show me how to streamline my margins, only to learn that they'll continue to voraciously seize my market share with the capital I surrender to them. The analogy is not perfect, but I think you understand my point.
However, if any site wants access to my low stakes expertise, then I'm open to listening to their offer... If and when I ever get a cut of the action, then I'm all for training sites ;) I play the game very differently from most SNG players and I feel like the knowledge I've gained through years of grinding is somewhat valuable.
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