Poker Discussion
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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
Alright, so here it is.
The account 'ABlackCar' was not made for multi-accounting. It was intentionally made for my grandma for her birthday present. However, it was never given to her. So, I had an extra account. Yes, I multi-tabled. Yes, it is incredibly easy. Yes, many people do it was . You really have no idea about the situation.
About 2 months ago, I thought it was just a really bad idea like everyone else. A lot of my friends did it, and i always gave them a hard time for it. But, I had a conversation with a player where we decided it would be a lot of +EV to not be known when you are playing MTTs. So, basically, I had a spare account with tons of +EV in it. So many poeple did it with no reprocautions. I know someone who had over 10 accounts in a recent million guaranteed. Party has no idea.
So, back to the day of the win. When there was about 30 left, I started telling all these people I was in. I was too much caught up in the moment, and it was a really stupid thing to do in hindsight. It slipped out, and everyone knew. The account was in the name of my grandma, and it was intended for her to play in, so that was the easiest excuse for me. I apologize for lieing to everyone. I really do. When such a large amount of money is on the line, it's really tough to be loyal to morals.
The next morning, both accounts were close. Today, they took away all the money. The roughly 40k in JJProdigy, and the 140k in ABlackCar. The following is what I was e-mailed by Party:
Josh,
The PartyPoker.com investigations team opened an investigation on accounts JJProdigy and ABlackCar relating to suspicious activities during the February 12th $500K Guaranteed Tournament. The investigation was initially triggered by the investigations team as a result of a ýcommon informationý alert, IP and computer. Although the investigation was initiated internally, customer service began receiving complaints/concerns regarding this situation starting on February 13th.
With this investigation, the complaints and alerts pointed to multiple accounts being played from the same location in the same tournament.
The accounts involved in the investigation:
Account JJProdgy was created on November 4th, 2004.
Account ABlackCar was created on December 31st, 2005.
Note: The account ABlackCar was not created until December 31st, 2005, therefore all previous data was not used in the investigation unless found to be relevant.
When investigating the location of where an account is played from, there are two identifying factors that are taken into account.
A specific computer is traced by a unique computer identification number.
An Internet Protocol (IP) address is the address that an internet service provider uses to identify and trace the location of a computer.
From December 31st, 2005 until February 11th, both accounts only used the IP address xxxxxxx, which traces to xxxxxx, CA. Both accounts only used a computer with the same identifier. These are referred to as the xxxxxx IP and computer.
Account ABlackCar was created from the Home IP and computer on December 31st, 2005. On dates of January 1st, 3rd, 5th, 15th and February 6th, 7th and 9th ABlackCar logged into the Home IP and computer and registered and played in a total of nine tournaments. All of these tournaments had a buy-in of $100 or more.
Account JJProdigy was logged into from the Home IP and computer on the same dates and registered and played in the same tournaments.
Both of these accounts were played from the same computer and the same IP address in the same tournaments.
The tournament in question took placed on February 12th. At 13:54 ET account JJProdigy logged into a different computer, but from the Home IP, and registered for the $500k Guaranteed Tournament. That account then logged out and back in on the Home computer at 15:18. $215 was transferred to account ABlackCar at 15:27. At 15:32 account ABlackCar logged onto the Home IP and computer and registered for the same $500k Tournament.
Both accounts started playing the $500k Tournament from the Home IP and computer.
Summary:
This indisputable evidence led to the conclusion that both accounts had played several tournaments together from the same computer located in the same location.
Account ABlackCar, although registered in a different name, is believed to have been created with the sole intention of playing multiple accounts in the same tournaments. Both accounts were consistently logged into at the same time and show a consistent pattern of being played by the same person.
Conclusion:
A decision has been made, in consultation with the Poker Room Manager, Legal and Management, to close both accounts and confiscate all funds. Funds gathered by this deception will be refunded to the players that were affected.
Regards,
Francis Hamilton,
Investigations Team
alerts@PartyPoker.com
PartyPoker.com
The next one is:
Although we did not need such admission given the overwhelming evidence of cheating that you provided to me, Mr Fields’ admission certainly helps us feel even more confident that we have taken the right action. Mr Field’s assertion that this is permitted is completely untrue. Term 5 of our terms and conditions states:
5. True Identity and One Account.
The name on your Account must match your true and legal name and identity and the name on your PartyPoker.com Account registration must match the name on the credit card(s) or other payment accounts used to deposit or receive monies in your Account. You are prohibited from holding more than one Account at PartyPoker.com.
This means that Mr Field is in breach of our terms and conditions by holding more than one account in different names. This term is included in our terms and conditions to prevent player cheating and fraud.
Furthermore, our terms also state (relevant sections highlighted in blue):
“6. Rules and Procedures of the Games.
You must play the Games pursuant to the generally accepted casino and poker rules set out in the Game Rules section, and the procedures specifically set out in the, the Games Section of the PartyPoker.com website, including but not limited to How to Play, Table Stakes, Tournaments, Tournament Rules, Poker Etiquette section and any other page on PartyPoker.com that specifically relates to and governs any particular event, game or tournament.
…
19. Fraudulent Activities and Prohibited Transactions.
The Company has a zero tolerance policy towards inappropriate play and fraudulent activity. If, in the Company's sole determination, you are found to have cheated or attempted to defraud the Company or any other user of any of the Games in any way including but not limited to game manipulation or payment fraud, or if the Company suspects you of fraudulent payment, including use of stolen credit cards, or any other fraudulent activity (including any chargeback or other reversal of a payment) or prohibited transaction (including money laundering), the Company reserve’s the right to suspend and/or close your Account and to share this information (together with your identity) to other online gaming sites, banks, credit card companies, and appropriate agencies.
….
21. Forfeiture & Account Closure.
21.1 THE COMPANY RESERVES THE RIGHT, IN ITS UNFETTERED DISCRETION AND IN RELATION TO YOUR ACCOUNT, ANY RELATED ESP ACCOUNT, ANY ACCOUNTS YOU MAY HAVE WITH OTHER SITES AND/OR CASINOS AND/OR SERVICES OWNED OR OPERATED BY OR ON BEHALF OF THE COMPANY AND ANY SERVICES THAT SHARE THE SHARED GAME/TABLE PLATFORM, TO WITHHOLD YOUR ACCOUNT BALANCE, SUSPEND YOUR ACCOUNT, AND RECOVER ANY PAY-OUTS, BONUSES AND WINNINGS IF:
(i) You are in breach of any term of this Agreement;
(ii) The Company should become aware that you have played at any other online gaming site or services and are suspected of fraud, collusion or unlawful or improper activity;
(iii) You have "charged back" or denied any of the purchases or deposits that you made to your Account;
(iv) If you become bankrupt or analogous proceedings occur anywhere in the world.
21.2 If after a Security Review (see section 20 above) has been performed you have either:
(i) Been found not to have been in compliance with this Agreement; or
(ii) Not provided responses satisfactory to Company in its sole discretion within any reasonable timeframe specified in a security review request or (where none has been specified 30 days from the sending or making of the request); then ANY WITHHELD ACCOUNT BALANCES WILL BE DEEMED FORFEITED AND YOUR ACCOUNT CLOSED.”
In this case we should also remind Mr Field that his behaviour is both against our terms and conditions and against generally accepted casino and poker rules (which are incorporated by reference in clause 6) and which are there to protect both him and our other players. His actions leave us with no other options given our zero tolerance policy to cheating and unfair practices.
Regards
Legal Affairs
What I did was wrong. I shouldn't have been doing it in the first place. It made me lie and cheat to people and a community I know and trust. I feel terrible about it, but there isn't much I can do about it now.
Adam and Cal have handled this very well, and I thank them a ton.
***m not sure where I move on from here. I am contimplating legal action, but I won't go too much further into that.
(I am saying this more about the 40k than the 140k. They deserve to take away the 140k from me, and I compliment them that they were able to make such a bold move. However, I doubt anything will come with it. I typed this swiftly, and was somewhat still hoping I would be able to get some of teh money back, which i do not deserve.)
Thanks for all the supports through this whole ordeal. I really do appeciate it.
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I'll restate something I said earlier in the thread:
The $40K in his JJProdigy account might have been earned while he was multi-accounting as well, and should be refunded back to those he took advantage of in those tournaments.
This is something PP may have looked into, maybe not. But I kind of find it hard to believe that he won all of the $40K in tournaments that he wasn't multi-accounting.
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The truth shall set you free. Thats the hardest part JJ is coming clean, you have the skill to do well, will be hard to recoup any of the money mainly because internet poker is illegal in the united states. but it is aparant that you have the skills in this game to be successful , it is a very costly lesson to deal with im sorry for you, i have no idea how it feel to win a lottery and then have them say oh wait those numbers were wrong. it has to be extreemely difficult. good luck to you in any future endevers, it takes a strong person to come out like you did and i say bravo to you for doing it.
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i feel it completely necessary to metion i was the first person to call out JJ for lying. i knew he'd prove me right.
i admire your courage to admit you're wrong, but your integrity and word mean shit now. sorry to say. gl.
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Good job coming clean! It takes a lot of character to do that.
Thank your lucky stars that online casinos are not based in the U.S.A.!!
And what Fox had to say was great!
You might talk to Party and see if you can help them improve their security…might help get some of your other cash back. Cooperation is usually rewarded more then defiance.
On a last note, PP did the right thing….BUT I am shocked they missed it for so long…..
GL
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I don't know JJ or any of the players on here ... The kid made a huge mistake and he is paying the price ... i commend you for owning up JJ ... I do not think it's just to save face ... i think you are ashamed of yourself and are probably a good person ... i think everyone should give the kid the benefit of the doubt ... he got caught up in his success and tried to parlay it into bigger and better things ... was it wrong?? Hell yeah, it was wrong ... but, he has paid his debt to society so let's move on ... he learned a $180,000 lesson ... we were all young, dumb and full of cum at one point in our lifes ... most that post here are still young ... learn from JJ's mistake ... get rid of your multiple accounts ... do things the right way b/c it's the right thing to do ... forget about being ranked as a poker player -- get ranked as a human being ... good luck to ya JJ .. learn your lesson and move on ...
con
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Read what JJ wrote... "It slipped out, and everyone knew."
Don't shoot the messenger.
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LOOOK AT ME I WAS RIGHT WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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JJ, good for you for owning up to making a mistake. I'm pretty sure you'll have no recourse with Party, since you violated their terms and conditions. Consider it a very expensive lesson and be glad that they aren't passing on to other online poker sites to freeze out other accounts, like it would likely be in Vegas.
You're a very good player and will likely make it back and more this year. Thanks for doing the right thing and owning up, gl to you.
Graham
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just view it as one hell of a bad beat and make sure you dont go on perma-life-tilt for it ;)
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PP isn't regulated, they can't be sued, right? Plus, they wouldn't be afraid of bad press from JJ.
Obv he's a great player, but him wanting to sue over the 40k isn't going to stop me from playing there.
I do think that anytime someone does something like this, it hurts online poker for us all because it could discourage new players (fish) from sticking around.
But, I don't think this one instance will hurt us by itself. It would take more instances, and collectively it would hurt us.
Lastly, I actually hope JJ doesn't out the other ranked players who do this
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I was part of the F cheaters and F JJ posts. I have to say this, F party poker.
What JJ did is like saying Barry Bonds is not the HR champion cause he
took steroids, sure he took the fucking steroids but at that time
nobody cared, nobody noticed and nobody did a fucking thing about
it.
Let JJ keep his money, he earned it. Party Poker is acting like
they caught a rat. They didn't catch shit, Mantis made a MISTAKE
as Action Jeff pointed out when he said shhhhh or something along those
lines. Party Poker only caught JJ cause of P5's. They offer
no security that other people won't do this.
F Party Poker, i have changed my stance on this officially. They
need to solve the problem, not use p5's to solve this problem
N282 should be head of online poker security
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I am glad you owned up to it. Very sad that some players wanted you to keep this quiet and i can suspect why they would want that. Good luck to your friends that do this, if we can make some good guesses as to who they are with none of party's info, i can't imagine what party is going to find. In regards to party taking the 40k from JJ, that is the right thing to do. he cheated nine times prior to the win with both accounts. Besides as players would you want to play at a site that takes this seriously enough to take all the money and punish him as fully as they can or a site that goes halfway in this situation? Party obviously has some work to do in this area and the way to do it is by catching these people and throwing the book at them. Come down hard on them take all their money. That is the only way people will learn. To the people who multi-account - it sure is going to sting as party sifts through all their tourneys now and takes money left and right. Everyone knows that a poker game is only as good as it is legit, the players benefit and the site benefits. Party can't get any players if they go easy on JJ or if they don't come down on these people as hard as possible. The final note, it is just rumor i have heard but Party's upgrade recently isn't all about changes we can see....the 180k from JJ is just the start of the collection.
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JJ, thanks for stepping up regarding what happened. You made a mistake and have paid for it, I know I have made some bad mistakes in my life. The only thing I could do was to own up and afterwards be the best man I could be. Good luck to you in the future.
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i know JJ is reading every reply to this....you should drop the dime dude
give us the list...who else????
send the online poker world into chaos
do it
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Any entity can be sued.
Their fine print says something about arbitration, I would guess, but any lawyer worth his salt would get something going anyway.
They have to give him the amount that was in there before the Granny account was created. They have the records. They should find out he had $2,992 or whatever, on December 25th, and give him that back, since it is prima facie evidence that it was not involved in the whole affair. The difference between that amount and $40K should be investigated.
I hate when companies think their offshore asses can get away with anything.
I am about to send a registered letter to Citadel Commerce in a bit myself.
Go Neteller! Citadel Commerce sucks, of course.
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