Poker Legislation
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I live in a state where online gambling is supposedly illegal. However, tbh, I've read the law and its some what vague and hard to dechipher if poker is included.
In any case, it seems if Frank's new bill, that I've been writing my congressmen and Obama and urging their support, passes a strict ban will be enforced in 12 states where online gambling is supposed illegal.
So is Frank only really proposing liberty for some Americans? What effort is being made within such states to have these laws changed? Is anyone in Illinois working to define if online poker is illegal in Illinois and if so working to change this? I'd be interested in doing what I can as an IL taxpayer.
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 TheVillageGrinder: | |
I live in a state where online gambling is supposedly illegal. However, tbh, I've read the law and its some what vague and hard to dechipher if poker is included.
In any case, it seems if Frank's new bill, that I've been writing my congressmen and Obama and urging their support, passes a strict ban will be enforced in 12 states where online gambling is supposed illegal.
So is Frank only really proposing liberty for some Americans? What effort is being made within such states to have these laws changed? Is anyone in Illinois working to define if online poker is illegal in Illinois and if so working to change this? I'd be interested in doing what I can as an IL taxpayer.
Excellent question. I am in the process of trying to create a full explanation of state laws and how they effect online poker for this site, but for now I want to point out things specific to Frank's proposed bill.
As it is currently written, Frank's bill allows for the Governor of each state to declare that their state will "opt-out" of licensed online gambling. If the Governor chooses to opt-out, licensed sites will be required to prevent folks from those states playing on the site for real money.
The state opt-out provision is probably the most controversial aspect of this bill, especially for poker players. The PPA's lobbyists are actively trying to get changes to this provision. That said, however, it is hard to imagine a bill passing that does not allow for some form of state opt-out. The politics of "states rights" is that strong, and many in Congress are very much opposed to forcing all the states to accept online gambling.
That said, the Frank bill is not finished. Just how worried you should be about its opt-out provisions is still an open question. We really wont know until the bill has left the committee, and even then amendments on the floor are possible.
And there is also a fair chance that other bills will be intorduced before this whole thing is over.
Finally, there is no guarantee that the '12 states" people refer to
will actually opt-out, or be required to opt-out, even under the bill
as currently written. You have to be aware that the ONLY state whose law
is explicit and unquestioned that a person gambling online is
committing a crime is Washington (and even that law is subject to an argument that it is unconstitutional). Illinois, unfortunately for you, is
the next worse. Illinois is very likely a state whose law against
playing will be interpreted to apply to the internet (that's a long
legal discussion). In just about all the others, the law is only
against offering online gambling, or running an online gambling
business. In New York, for example, there is no law that makes mere
PLAYING online illegal.
So when you write your congresspersons in support of Franks bill what you really should be doing is telling them how much you support the general principle of legal and regulated online poker. This is absolutely needed to keep our side on offense and to keep things moving in our direction. NEVER STOP WRITING.
When all is said and done and a final version of either the Frank bill or some other bill makes it to the house floor for a vote, that will be the time for individuals (and the PPA for that matter) to make a final decision as to whether to support the bill, or withold support in favor of a better bill.
Oh, and are you a member of the PPA? If not join, and if you are a member, or after you join, contact us at the PPA and we will help put you in touch with other Illinois members and we will do what we can to help you work to change Illinois poker laws.
To my knowledge no one has ever been arrested for it, but under Illinois law as currently written, that famous poker game Obama participated in with other legislators may have made them all guilty of a misdemeanor offense. High time to change that law indeed.
Skallagrim
PPA Litigation Support Director
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One thing is certain. If we get a US solution, even with carve outs, we will have much needed ammunition to work with in our states.
I live in Washington State, the strictest of all. We have representatives in the state that have attempted to resverse the state law. They have failed so far. But, they have the ear of others in the state legislature. And, the state feeling that US law makes it illegal, feels no pressure in reversing the original action.
If legislation is passed at the federal level, the state will have look at itself in the mirror. They will have to ask themselves if they are willing to use taxpayer money to fight off those who may have the issue taken up in The US Supreme Court. They will be forced to look at the issue through the glasses of hypocrocy. The state allows all sorts of gambling, including state sponsered gambling. They will be shown for what they are, special interest mouthpieces with their eye on campaign contributions instead of the protectionists they claim to be.
Federal acceptance and regulation will be the best arguement for softening the oppressive states. The PPA would likely switch much of it's resources over to state issues. Lawyers, seeing the obvious discrepancies, would likely take up the issue of US constitutionality.
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Skallagrim,
I cannot thank you enough for the lengths you've gone to help all of us political noobs understand the situation.
One follow up question, let's say some form of this Frank bill passes and allows state's to opt out. Will it be a foregone conclusion that they would simply auto opt out since state law currently seems to say online gambling/gaming is illegal? Or would there be some legislative process on a state level to make a formal decision? Do we know how states would go about opting out? Would it be put to a vote in the state legislature? Would the current law dictate we automatically would opt out? Govenor's decision?
Sorry for all the questions, but this is a pretty important point, especially in Illinois. OUr government is so corrupt (ie one former govenor currently in jail and another one likely headed there soon.) I literally have ZERO faith in our state leaders that they care even one iota about doing the right thing for the people, nevermind making a decision based on what the citizens want. The decision they make will stand to serve their own interests and/or those of their in bed with.
It's sad, but that's the bitter truth in Illinois. The political machine is still alive and well here and it tilts me so hard. As a resident of Illinois, I truly feel that NONE of our elected officials are here to truly serve the people. It really is government AT the ppl.
I'll definitely be joining the PPA, but more than that, I want to do work on this. I want the opportunity to come face to face with our leadership. So once I join, I will def make contact with other in IL and feel the same way I do. I wanna go down swinging on this one.
Oh, was just wondering, would there be any way for ppl to join the PPA via a Stars/Tilt transfer? I'd bet you'd get a lot more members from the online community if you could market this as a way to join.
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| TheVillageGrinder: | |
Skallagrim,
I cannot thank you enough for the lengths you've gone to help all of us political noobs understand the situation.
One follow up question, let's say some form of this Frank bill passes and allows state's to opt out. Will it be a foregone conclusion that they would simply auto opt out since state law currently seems to say online gambling/gaming is illegal? Or would there be some legislative process on a state level to make a formal decision? Do we know how states would go about opting out? Would it be put to a vote in the state legislature? Would the current law dictate we automatically would opt out? Govenor's decision?
Sorry for all the questions, but this is a pretty important point ....
It's sad, but that's the bitter truth in Illinois.
.... I'll definitely be joining the PPA, but more than that, I want to do work on this. I want the opportunity to come face to face with our leadership. So once I join, I will def make contact with other in IL and feel the same way I do. I wanna go down swinging on this one.
Oh, was just wondering, would there be any way for ppl to join the PPA via a Stars/Tilt transfer? I'd bet you'd get a lot more members from the online community if you could market this as a way to join.
First, thanks for the kind words TheVillageGrinder
To answer your questions, the present language of the Frank Bill leaves the decision exclusively to the governor of a state as to whether to opt-out or not. It is unlikely, IMHO, that this provision will stay that way. It is unlikely that state legislatures will be happy with being cut out of the equation, if that's the final version, and they may take steps to force a governor to act one way or another (if possible). So for this first point we will have to wait for a final version before debating whether its good or bad; I really can't see it staying as just a decision made by the governor.
As for joining the PPA and working to get Illinois laws regarding poker changed, YES! These Illinois laws are one of my pet peeves. Huge numbers of folks in Chicago and elsewhere in Illinois enjoy private poker games, both in their homes and in "illegal" card rooms. There are also licensed casinos nearby. Yet every game not in a licensed casino is illegal under current Illinois law. What possible reason exists to make criminals out of folks who gather over a dining room table for a game of poker with their friends?
Of course, Chicago is also the city that tried to ban foie gras.
Do join the PPA, encourage your friends to do so too. There cant be that many corrupt and stupid people in Illinois that the majority cant see the point of not making home poker games a crime. The PPA will help, but it takes PEOPLE to get a movement going.
As for donations directly from the sites, its a bit complex. But the major sites already do a good bit to support the PPA. And joining or donating by clicking on our website's link is not really that difficult - you can even use your credit card!
Skallagrim
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Skall-
Could you please explain to be better the New York law?
You are awesome by the way.
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| Jennifear: | |
Skall-
Could you please explain to be better the New York law?
You are awesome by the way.
Kinda warms my soon-to-be-an old-man's heart to be called "awesome." Thanks for that compliment, Jennifear. 
Not to put you off, but TheEngineer and I are working on a project to have some comprehensive information on all state laws presented on this forum. We hope to have something up this weekend. In that context we will talk about New York's relatively unique gambling laws, I assure you.
Skallagrim
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Awesome posts Skall. Thanks!
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iis612
(United States)
301
Posts.
Joined
06-01-2005.
07-02-2009 12:28 AM
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In reply to
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Perhaps this is a foolish question, but how does one go about joining the PPA?
Matt
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| iis612: | |
Perhaps this is a foolish question, but how does one go about joining the PPA?
Matt
That's an excellent question. Simply go to http://theppa.org and click Join. The direct link is https://theppa.org/join.
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