Hand Advice
|
|
Please help support pocketfives by using our links when choosing to download a new site!
CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog
|
This is from a stars $10 deepstack tourney. Average chips is around 8k. Obviously when he checked the river, I thought I was best...but when he pushed I couldnt see him holding anything but 9T
DPokerStars Game #5221685842: Tournament #25838135, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/06/11 - 13:32:43 (ET)
Table '25838135 103' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: paintchaser (7330 in chips)
Seat 2: EyeSpecs (26442 in chips)
Seat 3: supaplaya2 (7090 in chips)
Seat 4: Shaaarrrp (10847 in chips)
Seat 5: IainMcDonald (10993 in chips)
Seat 6: goldfarb123 (15966 in chips)
Seat 7: rugrroy (6684 in chips)
Seat 8: 1969DrpTop (17748 in chips)
Seat 9: Riverloser (4520 in chips) is sitting out
goldfarb123: posts small blind 25
rugrroy: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***ealt to Shaaarrrp [4s 4h]
Shaaarrrp said, "lol"
1969DrpTop: calls 50
Riverloser: folds
paintchaser: calls 50
EyeSpecs: folds
supaplaya2: folds
Shaaarrrp: calls 50
IainMcDonald: folds
goldfarb123: calls 25
rugrroy: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4c Jc]
goldfarb123: bets 50
rugrroy: folds
1969DrpTop: calls 50
paintchaser: folds
Shaaarrrp: calls 50
*** TURN *** [Qs 4c Jc] [6s]
goldfarb123: bets 150
1969DrpTop: folds
Shaaarrrp: raises 530 to 680
goldfarb123: calls 530
*** RIVER *** [Qs 4c Jc 6s] [8d]
goldfarb123: checks
Shaaarrrp: bets 1499
goldfarb123: raises 13687 to 15186 and is all-in
Shaaarrrp: folds
Shaaarrrp said, "ugh"
goldfarb123 collected 4758 from pot
|
|
|
|
|
bbtb
(United States)
39
Posts.
Joined
04-25-2006.
06-11-2006 2:30 PM
-
In reply to
|
|
|
This, sadly, is a very read heavy situation. Either way he has made a really good play, but heres the thing, very few players will check the nuts on river. Without knowing anything else about the player I would put it as a 50/50 nuts or bluff. Sadly that is the perfect bluff. Good fold but you MIGHT have been played.
Edit: BTW Yes I personally think betting the river was the right play.
|
|
|
|
Yes, checking the river shows weakness. I think he more than likely missed his flush than hit the straight draw. Outs-wise, people are less likely to chase a straight. I think since you weren't sure it was a good fold.
|
|
|
|
Why did you call such a small bet on flop with a flush draw possibility? IMO, raise huge to week out anything but top 2 or tptk. Sure you may think a set is great, but why give a chance for so many people to hit? QQ or JJ is probably raising pre so your rarely beat at this point....WEED OUT LIMPERS....but that's just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
This is from a stars $10 deepstack tourney. Average chips is around 8k. Obviously when he checked the river, I thought I was best...but when he pushed I couldnt see him holding anything but 9T
DPokerStars Game #5221685842: Tournament #25838135, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/06/11 - 13:32:43 (ET)
Table '25838135 103' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: paintchaser (7330 in chips)
Seat 2: EyeSpecs (26442 in chips)
Seat 3: supaplaya2 (7090 in chips)
Seat 4: Shaaarrrp (10847 in chips)
Seat 5: IainMcDonald (10993 in chips)
Seat 6: goldfarb123 (15966 in chips)
Seat 7: rugrroy (6684 in chips)
Seat 8: 1969DrpTop (17748 in chips)
Seat 9: Riverloser (4520 in chips) is sitting out
goldfarb123: posts small blind 25
rugrroy: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***ealt to Shaaarrrp [4s 4h]
Shaaarrrp said, "lol"
1969DrpTop: calls 50
Riverloser: folds
paintchaser: calls 50
EyeSpecs: folds
supaplaya2: folds
Shaaarrrp: calls 50 I would raise here about 200 the thin the field if eveyone fold so what
IainMcDonald: folds
goldfarb123: calls 25 SB Pot odds could have any two here
rugrroy: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4c Jc]
goldfarb123: bets 50
rugrroy: folds
1969DrpTop: calls 50
paintchaser: folds
Shaaarrrp: calls 50 You just made the Nuts unless they have JJ or QQ which probally did not happen, With a flush draw and stright draw out there you need to push this a littler harder cause you dont want to give them pot odds on there draws.
*** TURN *** [Qs 4c Jc] [6s]
goldfarb123: bets 150 Does this 6 really help him out? does he have Q6, J6 does he have trip 6's it hard to say cause you did not push that flop if he had 66 and you push that flop he is out if he has top pair he will stay in and that is what you want.
1969DrpTop: folds
Shaaarrrp: raises 530 to 680 Well this is a small bet if we go back to raiseing pre flop you would be putting him all in at this point and if he has a draw he is not staying in if he does he does not know poker and pot odds
goldfarb123: calls 530 He calls here but like I said he can have anything cause he was SB and the pot was unraised pre flop
*** RIVER *** [Qs 4c Jc 6s] [8d]
goldfarb123: checks He checks here and the way the hand was played out I would just check too.
Shaaarrrp: bets 1499 The pot is pretty good right now and I would be happy with the amount I got since I cannont put him on a Hand
goldfarb123: raises 13687 to 15186 and is all-in This is a great bet by him he problly does not have anything but its going to cost your tournament to find out? I think he has two pair
Shaaarrrp: folds
Shaaarrrp said, "ugh"
goldfarb123 collected 4758 from pot
|
|
|
|
I would not raise with 44. What you want with these small pockets is many callers, and to hit a set. If you raise with 44 like Ariganello is suggesting, and get one or two callers you will be behind after the flop in about 4-5 out of 7 times you make that play. If you do call, and there are a couple of players in the pot, you're hoping that someone will hit two pairs so that they will be doubling you up. You need to bet more on the flop. Bet more to get info about other peoples hands. When it comes to the river... He might have called to the river with either a straight or a flush draw. If he had an open ended straight draw with 9T, he just hit the nuts. If he doesn't have anything at all, he will not call your bet. Check the river.
|
|
|
|
Hey Manta look at the stack compared to the blinds. He can afford to raise here so 9T does not stay in. He has the best hand Preflop so why not Raise?
|
|
|
|
I didnt raise 44 because frankly, that just isnt my game....and who is to say 44 is the best hand preflop with 2 limpers in before me??
|
|
|
|
Ok thats fine if you wana win tournaments follow what I posted on how to play the hand in bold.
Phil
|
|
|
|
I'm not sure when you mean he should raise, but I interpreted it like you suggested he should raise it preflop. Of course he can raise preflop, but if he gets called the best you can hope for is a 50/50. But if you did that, got called and didn't hit the set, what would you do? You have a pair, but if one of your opponents also does, the only hand you could beat is 22 or 33. If you just call and don't hit your set you've lost 50 chips. If you hit and have many callers you can hope that someone hits top pair with good kicker, or that someone hits two pair, which can make the hand really profitable. With 22,33,44,55,66 you usually need to hit a set in order to comfortably know you're ahead of your opponent. Guess that depends on your style, but I wouldn't risk much chips having 44 with these low blinds. If you're really short later in the game you can think of pushing it for a potential race or to steal the blinds. At least that's my approach.
|
|
|
are you telling me i have to raise 44 preflop to win tournments???
even if i raise 44 and hit, this flop was so drawish that I think some drawing hands might actually be close to even % with my set and I had no reason to risk my tourney life at this point...raisijng 44 preflop is probably the last thing id do in this hand. Yes, I understnd the vlue of aggression and being the one in control of the pot, but the idea that 44 is the best hand prefop after 2 people limp is a dngerous and very often false belief. You know as well as I do tht people love to limp with 99, TT nd other similr hands in early position. IMO, with blinds this low-especially in a deepstack tourney-44 is a drawing hand. I am not trying to build a pot with it preflop like I might be with a real hand. I also dont see the problem with my turn raise because I raised the size of the pot....yes I had the virtual nuts but I didnt want to push him out of the hand and I believe I gave him just the wrong odds to call my raise with some sort of draw.
i just think you are looking at this through a results oriented view, imo i lose chips making the preflop raise in this spot in the long run. Even after seeing what happened in this hnd I probably play it exactly the sme except for the bet on the river
|
|
|
He lost 2200 hundred in chips on this hand, lets say he raises and everyone folds he just made 150 compared to his loss. Lets say he bets 200 and he gets one caller the guy with the T9 or that is what he suspects. He see's the flop he bets 500. The guy reraises he folds he saved 1500 in chips."But why would you fold you want to get re raised here right? you just made trips on the flop if the guy make trip Q or J's then that is bad luck and it happens but not very often espically when he was willing to limp with them there preflop If I bet 500 on trips and get reraised on the flop I am going to push back I made a great hand and I am hoping my opponent has AQ or AJ or even QJ because I know I have gotten my money in with the best hand" Lets say he bet 500 and the guy calls even though he is a 3 to 1 dog with a open ended straight verse trips the turn is a 6. He bets out 1100 on the turn. He is a 82% verse a open ended straight now mathamatically this guy is not sposed to call here. But lets says he re raises here for somereason and he wants to fold he still saves 400 in chips from the originally play.
And who says he is racing he is not going all in with 44 he is risking a very small portion of his chips here pre flop. What was he hoping for when limped in? He hit his flop great. If he put his oponent on T9 why would he bet so small to let this guy stay in for his straight? He posted this hand under the hand advice and that is what I am doing. I Only raise A small pokcet pair when I am first to open a pot in a decent postion. He is in the cutoff postion which is a great spot to open a pot with a samll pocket pair. If he has 44 early postion then that is when I would limp lets say UTG and 4 spots after that anything else that is un opened I will do the standard 3x blind raise. Now if UTG raise 3 times the BB I know I am more than likely beat but seeing that the blinds are low and it would only be 200 to call with a PP I like to call and hope to hit a set.
|
|
|
|
Listen you only called the bet on the flop why would you do this with a flush and a straight draw out there. Dont you want to reraise and take the pot done before they make there hand you giving both those guys free cards to a flush or a straight draw. Then you bet the turn what are your tring to say now hey I made a hand with that 6? He probally picked up that you are week and was going to push you off of anyhand if the river was a scare card and it was and that is what he did.
|
|
|
|
I would raise on the flop, but not preflop. We obviously have two different styles, and that's a great way to learn. I think I could learn a lot from you Ariganello, and you might learn something from me. Keep posting, interesting to read.
|
|
|
to be honest, the reason i called on the flop is because I wanted to see the turn card before risking my tourney life. Like I siad before, I knew I had the best hand postflp but also knew there could be ridiculous draws out there which might be even money vs my set. The pot was very small at this point and I didnt want or need to make it huge before I knew I was heavily favored. Like I said before I do not think my raise on the turn was small at all. It just doesnt make sense to raise to 3-4x the current pot size. I really dont think this guy put me on a hand that the 6 on the turn helped...why the hell would I call the flop bet with a hand that the six helps??
I totally understand that you like to put all your chips in the pot when you know you are ahead but with an above avg chipstack and about a million draws that have very good possibilities of hitting, Id rather avoid an all in at this point.
|
|
|
|
|
Sortable Rankings
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|