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CarbonPoker · Full Tilt · Cake Poker · PokerStars · Ultimate Bet · Players Only · Bodog

   

Interesting hand in $4 fo on stars
odstore (United States) 536 Posts. Joined 01-11-2008.
11-05-2009 6:47 PM
Reply Quote

Villain had been pretty aggro but I don't remember him showing anything down.  I'd been card racking a little so I'd been opening a decent amount and two hands before this I 3 bet him from my bb cause he'd been opening a lot in the last few orbits.

What range do you put him on for leading the turn and what are your thoughts about turning the ace into a bluff on the river?


PokerStars Game #34935601657: Tournament #208702852, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (300/600) - 2009/11/04 22:30:16 ET
Table '208702852 65' 8-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: sharkfour44 (7496 in chips)
Seat 2: agresor (22394 in chips)
Seat 3: Wantagolf (26109 in chips)
Seat 4: angusfest (7190 in chips)
Seat 5: vyper22 (61077 in chips)
Seat 6: ajk64 (32805 in chips)
Seat 7: Allin_Tasse (70906 in chips)
Seat 8: ButtonSmashN (47787 in chips)
sharkfour44: posts the ante 70
agresor: posts the ante 70
Wantagolf: posts the ante 70
angusfest: posts the ante 70
vyper22: posts the ante 70
ajk64: posts the ante 70
Allin_Tasse: posts the ante 70
ButtonSmashN: posts the ante 70
Allin_Tasse: posts small blind 300
ButtonSmashN: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to vyper22 [9s Ac]
sharkfour44: folds
agresor: folds
Wantagolf: folds
angusfest: folds
vyper22: raises 900 to 1500
ajk64: folds
Allin_Tasse: folds
ButtonSmashN: calls 900
*** FLOP *** [6d Kh Ad]
ButtonSmashN: checks
vyper22: bets 2140
ButtonSmashN: calls 2140
*** TURN *** [6d Kh Ad] [Ts]
ButtonSmashN: bets 4639
vyper22: calls 4639
*** RIVER *** [6d Kh Ad Ts] [Qd]
ButtonSmashN: bets 10973
vyper22: raises 41755 to 52728 and is all-in

 
 
 

Sp1ctacular3 (United States) 687 Posts. Joined 08-07-2006.
11-07-2009 11:17 AM - In reply to
Reply Quote

I think his turn range consists mostly of combo draws and throw in some Ax hands and KT. I think he's showing up with hands like QdTd (although Qd hits the river, but we don't know that yet), JdTd, KJ, Qd9d, KQ, Jd9d, etc.

Really unsure what to do on this ugly river, as played I think I just fold. I don't mind bluffing though.

I think I would raise/fold the turn and check most rivers. Calling seems to set you up for a tough river as most rivers suck in this spot.

odstore (United States) 536 Posts. Joined 01-11-2008.
11-07-2009 12:05 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

Sp1ctacular3: 
I think I would raise/fold the turn and check most rivers.


Can you tell my why you're raising the turn?  Just as a bluff?


Sp1ctacular3 (United States) 687 Posts. Joined 08-07-2006.
11-07-2009 12:20 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

 You're ahead of a lot of combo draws on the turn and you should charge them to draw. If you get raised its an easy fold, and when you get called your in a better spot on the river as he'll likely check anything but a made straight or flush. 

Raising the turn is getting your value bet in early and letting you check the river on a scary board even though you're likely ahead.


odstore (United States) 536 Posts. Joined 01-11-2008.
11-07-2009 12:26 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

If his range is KT,AT,TT, combo draws and air do I get more value by raising if he's likely to barrel on the river w/ his air? 


Sp1ctacular3 (United States) 687 Posts. Joined 08-07-2006.
11-07-2009 12:48 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

 At these stakes I think it's more likely a player will check/fold missed draws. So you're gonna get more value by charging weak players to draw, as opposed to inducing them to bluff. I also think hands like A4, A5, A7, A8, AJ, KQ, KJ is in his range as well. I think you are ahead of enough where say a 2.5x turn raise will show a profit. 


Edit: I guess there is a chance he has 66 here but hard to see him playing the flop so weak with an aggro image



saukendar (United States) 734 Posts. Joined 03-19-2007.
11-12-2009 7:46 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

I'm wondering - what do you think he's folding here that you can beat?. When you push the river he has ~40% of his stack in already and he'll get almost 2.4:1 on the call. I'm thinking you'll drive out a stone-cold bluff & not much else. Maybe 2PR but I really doubt anything better ever folds. He did lead out a bet claiming to be commited with a 1 card str8 out & the flush hit the river.

So did he show you the JdTd or what?

my 2 cents


Deoxyribo (United States) 1,704 Posts. Joined 06-01-2008.
11-12-2009 7:49 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

 the river bluff is bad. hes calling with better only obv, and you have a TON of chips, no need to bluff it all off when he could easily have a jack here

i play the same pre/flop/turn, but just fold river. you dont beat much and ur basically praying he doesnt have a jack.

if the river was a blank i probably fold to a nice sized river bet too.


Aarin 123 Posts. Joined 10-12-2008.
11-13-2009 9:14 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

 agreed with above.

Maybe block bet here (if that seems to work), but shoving is sort of spewy, even if you get a fold. at least with a block bet on the river you can gtfo and fight more later.

I don't think he auto shoves after that river card to win the pot. Usually they fold.


asujake (United States) 75 Posts. Joined 02-21-2008.
11-13-2009 10:51 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

 checking back the flop is the best play here imo, if he has a FD on the flop or some sort of combo draw your hand is too vulnerable to play a big pot, on the turn if he fires which seems like he will it will be a lot smaller of a pot and you induce more bluffs this way, on the river if he fires again i would consider it a feel play,  i feel that if the hand is played this way you have way too much showdown value to shove as a bluff. so i think sometimes i fold and sometimes i call. an option discussed was raising the turn, and i think that in some situations this is necessary however you arent getting value from him on the river cause i think by raise/block to control the turn you have to check back the river. so with that said i say kep the pot small with your desguised decent ace.


odstore (United States) 536 Posts. Joined 01-11-2008.
11-14-2009 6:41 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

Deoxyribo: 

 the river bluff is bad. hes calling with better only obv, and you have a TON of chips, no need to bluff it all off when he could easily have a jack here

i play the same pre/flop/turn, but just fold river. you dont beat much and ur basically praying he doesnt have a jack.

if the river was a blank i probably fold to a nice sized river bet too.



I know he's not calling with worse but here was my thought process:the turn lead is 2pr/set or air most of the time, so betting the river for value makes no sense unless he specifically has random diamonds or a random J and I didn't think he was leading the turn w/ a draw.  This was obviously read based and I would have liked it more if we were a little deeper but I don't see many J's being in his range and I feel like so much of his range for value betting river has to fold to a shove.

odstore (United States) 536 Posts. Joined 01-11-2008.
11-14-2009 6:52 PM - In reply to
Reply Quote

asujake: 

 checking back the flop is the best play here imo, if he has a FD on the flop or some sort of combo draw your hand is too vulnerable to play a big pot, on the turn if he fires which seems like he will it will be a lot smaller of a pot and you induce more bluffs this way, on the river if he fires again i would consider it a feel play,  i feel that if the hand is played this way you have way too much showdown value to shove as a bluff. so i think sometimes i fold and sometimes i call. an option discussed was raising the turn, and i think that in some situations this is necessary however you arent getting value from him on the river cause i think by raise/block to control the turn you have to check back the river. so with that said i say kep the pot small with your desguised decent ace.



I agree w/ checking the flop and I've started doing this a lot more is spots like these.  I don't really like raising the turn cause I feel like I'm gonna have to fold a lot of rivers if he stop n go's.

I obviously was not planning on turning such a strong hand into a bluff but like I said above I felt like he wasn't playing diamonds that way so on the river I thought I could fold out hands he was betting thin by shoving.
 
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