Julian 5k at Council Bluff

By: Julian Verse
Published: Feb 24th, 2009
Need help understanding this hand, its just fucking weird too me. Day 1 of the 5k at Council Bluff, Jeff Banghart age 35-45 just sat down at my table and knew who I was and all about my sucess online. Now he just won a sick pot against a super aggro player a few orbits ago, And has been very active since has bluff once or twice got caught but for the most part has had a hand when ever he bet. Most importantly we haven't played a hand together and I've been weak tight the whole day I've been playing tighter than the old guys in this tounry.

Blinds at 400/800 w/ 100ante
effective stacks(mine) 38k in the BB w/ 8To

Limped pot 4 way action (pot 4k): SB(Jeff Banghart very active), Me BB 8To
Limper A utg+1 weak tight, limper B super aggro loose aggressive

Flop: Ts7s3h

SB checks
BB(me) leads 1600
Limper A calls
Limper B folds
SB calls

total pot: 8800

Turn: 8c or diamonds cuz i had the 8 of spades in my hand

SB checks
BB(me) leads 3300
Limper A calls
SB check raises to 10k
BB(me) calls
Limper folds

total pot:32,100

River: 2h

SB shoves all-in
BB(me) 23,400 left

What should I do call or fold? What can the SB have here that I can beat? What should I have I done on the turn? (A) lead like I did (B) check call limper B if he bets (C) Shove after getting check raised by SB (D) which is the worst fold the turn after getting check riased


    1. he couldve limp called 33, 77, 69sp, j9sp or total air maybe even 88 and he called the flop bet figuring ur lead was weak..btw i really respect ur game. Im assuming you called here and lost.
    2. considering hes never playing an overpair this way (god i hope not) thats out. I dont think he plays JT+ this way, if hes flattin the flop hes most definately flattin the turn with his good tens. I think he raises the flop with any 2p combo that u beat so thats out. What he can have is a set, J9(maybe spades maybe even not), 69ss and then air. The only air on this board is 9x and strangely played flush draws. I think hed have to play his air really strange to be bluffing here. I think hes got a set or J9. c/c the flop and c/r the turn is a rly strong line and i cant think of many hands that hes gonna show up w/ air with here. <p> Problem is when can you fold? Are u really bet/folding this turn? But if not why are u callin the turn and not the river... u know the bet is coming. I think you can fold this river tho maybe even the turn if ur read is that sick. Hes just rarely showin up w/ worse here blah gay spot
    3. Maybe Im an idiot but I cant fold this spot probably ever. however I may have played the turn differently. but i think he has 89 or 78 here 90% of the time. 33 is the only thing in his range that you cant beat.
    4. Pretty tough call. Could've been on something like 93s or 64s. I think if I call the turn, I call the river. Could've even flopped top 2 and played it this way. I don't think he has a set. Probably raises J's pre... maybe 9's?

      On the turn I think I may've gone with (B) just because I'd be more concerned about the limper having hit a set after limping in. Although he should probably be re-raising the flop w/ a set there.
    5. Easy call.

      Lose and get hammered.

      Win and have large stack.
    6. Up against a set here, 77 most likely given his line. Got ul on the turn and improved your hand. I like your lead on the turn, but I prob shut it down after getting check raised. Calling here commits about 1/3+ so it makes folding to a river bet harder. This is where live game comes in and if this guy is giving off any tells etc. can help you make a decision.

      I would want to call, but if it were me I probably let him have it as you have 28bbs behind. If he has enough balls to check raise you, then move in on the river with nothing then good for him.
    7. with stack sizes its possible he called with j9 on the flop...also possible that he has 87 which you beat...another strong likelihoood is he caslled with flush draw on flop, and picked up open ended or flush +gutshot on turn and check raised, and with pot size decided to shvoe river. Despite the fact that i would think the majority of his range beats you in a live tourney, with pot size you have to call.
    8. furthermore the utg limper being weak tight sets up a good spot for him to bluff raise the turn...but his raise size screams strength. Thus if you call the turn you have to call river
    9. you said hes been really active, and alls i hear is people saying how he could have you beat?? the ONLY hand im worried about it j9spades or 69spades, but

      he does have these pretty often. but he also could have worse two pair, bricked flush draw...no way he plays a set on the flop like that if hes been active, hes not check calling, prob not two pair either. you have an 8, so 88 is really unlikely. imo its a 50/50 he the straight or a bricked draw. but the way he played it, id say he prob has j9spades, and i prob fold on the turn. if your not folding the turn, dont see why you would fold the river.
    10. I call, 78 is def in his range and he can get funky here with 89. I wouldn't expect 96 to show up here often, but I think J9 is a relevant concern. I just think that this is a spot where you can fire a lot of combination draws twice from your seat and don't typically have top 2 (fwiw I wouldn't lead T8o here all that often on the flop). He can c/r a lot as a semi-bluff with the loose-passive flatting and I doubt with the brick he's going to shut down. I also think your line has a lot of draws in it after you flat the turn c/r and that a lot of hands with showdown value will bluff-catch the river rather than shove, so I think he has a lot fewer hands with strong showdown value. I mean, anything that can call his line here should be shoving river for value if checked to, right?
    11. gotta call off stack with how the hand was played out

      if he calls with J9 on that flop so be it
    12. I think he wanted you to think it was a bluff...
    13. get dem in.
    14. you seriously called the c/r on the turn and didnt know what to do on that river?

    15. I either fold or shuv the turn.

      Or call on river the way you played this.

      Since you say he was very active i lean more towards shuving the turn.
    16. really surprised you would call turn w/o a plan on a river as bricky as the 2. seems like an easy call once you get there.
    17. So can we get a result to what happened????????????
    18. I had J9 of clubs. The turn was the 8 of clubs by the way. With 2 limpers preflop and me having to call only 300 more from the SB it was an easy call. When I flopped the gutter and Julian lead for $1600 or so and both players called I figured why not peel one off. The turn gave me the nuts so I checkraised an amount that might price both plyers in if Julian called me first. When he called the other guy folded Q9 spades (he said). If the board pairs or a spade rolls off I am in check call or check fold mode on the river. The 2 of hearts hit the river so I still have the nuts. I should have bet 12,000 instead of Julian's whole stack (24,800 at the time), but I thought the insta-all in looked weaker. I made a mistake on the river.

    19. I love how you tried to call the clock on yourself during this hand, and they wouldn't let you. The floor came over and said you couldn't do that. So table mate Jeff Elseman goes, "OK, clock," and then they counted you down... silly rule.

      Banghart HAD to nail the turn the way it played out. The only possible things he can have that you can beat are the 7-8, or if it's a semibluff on the turn, something like 56s or X9s.

      I hate the idea of "having to call it off" on the river. You still had 30BB, plenty to pick another spot. Not to mention that was like the very last hand of Day 1. So I guess 24BB at the next level. Also, you had lost a couple big pots that last level, and your stack was sliding. Lay it down and come back for Day 2. I think you played it just fine.
    20. Lol at the guy who folded Q9 of spades for 7K more.
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