1. There has been an ongoing debate for many years about the legitimacy of Poker stars and other online poker networks. Conspiracy or fact ?


    Our first report will reveal the statistics and data gathered from analyzing over 36,000 hands on The Pokerstars network.
    Our researchers played in a variety of low to mid stakes SNG's and Rebuys tournaments in the first quarter of 2014 and the information was filed analysed and studied by several experienced poker pro's, a qualified statistician and two key industry experts.
    We will continue our research anonymously ( for now) and present the DOJ ( Department of justice) with a full detailed report in the foreseeable future.
    Our findings will not only astound you but will question the legitimacy of the site.
    Strange betting patterns, fake accounts, unbelievable plays and rigged flops to create action.
    We are all well aware of petitions online and its a known fact that Pokerstars has people working on numerous forums such as 2+2 right the way up to senior management level.So we will release the information we gathered in segments over the coming months.( thank you for your patience)

    In order to make a full assessment and have unbiased data we also need to hear from anyone who has experienced "strange" occurrences and witnessed similar situations to those we will outline in our up coming blogs.

    OK so back to the research,for obvious reasons we will not reveal all the personal details and names so we can continue with our research.
    Lets start with when we entered 8 of our researchers to play in a $3.30 Re-buy satellite. Firstly we found that a huge number, in fact almost all of eastern Europeans were able to speak perfect english and use the correct dialect, as we purposely engaged them in conversation.Strange but not impossible, maybe they had exceptional teachers.

    All our researchers played conservatively and as we approached the business end of the tournaments we really started to see some very strange betting patterns and unbelievable suck outs, bad beats. Luckily with the introduction of boom player we were able to record what went on to support our findings.
    One of many examples we have on file.
    A player, lets call him player X made a small raise from mid position and was called by the cut off,one our our researchers (lets call them all player R) was holding pocket Aces and shoved all in, an immediate call from from player X (risking his tournament life ) and a fold from the other player sat at the table. Player X revealed hole cards of 3 6 os. The flop 4 5 7. Amazed at this play we searched the player and found him entered into 4 other similar games.We observed his tables over the next hour or so and we began to see a pattern emerging. On one table 2 from the money he again went all in with 8 3 os only to get a call from a player holding AKs and hit a Full house on the flop. Again amazed at what we saw we studied some of the other plays made by player X. And quickly found that if an opponent did not shove pre flop there was always plenty of action to induce an all in bet on the turn and river only for player X to call and hit EVERY TIME, 6/6.

    We searched for the players data on all the big and smaller sites, sharkscope, pokerprolabs, playerscope etc and found nothing.

    We also observed other opponents ( not our researchers) question his play and make accusations against him claiming he was hitting/winning because he was "Russian" on 3 of the 4 occasions we witnessed this he was re-seated at another table.

    We all may have theories and can all see the benefits of a "rigged" site, after all they make money from rake and entry fees and there is a lot more we can go into regarding this but for now we just want to stick to the FACTS. We will publish more data over the coming days.

    As mentioned previously we have detailed data, Boom replays to support our findings but would like to hear from anyone else who has experienced anything they feel could help support this research so we can present a full unbiased report to the DOJ. who can then further investigate the matter and hopefully get to the truth.

    Feel free to comment, contact or share your experiences.

    All comments are without prejudice and in no way related to the sites on which they are published/posted and based on fact gathered over 36,432 hands played on poker stars in the first quarter of 2014.

    Regards
    The research team.
    Edited By: wackyJaxon May 6th, 2014 at 04:30 PM
    Reason: Do not break forum rules by post email address or anything similar - only post bad beat threads in the bad beat forum
    Add pokerstars_rigged to Rail
  2. "Firstly we found that a huge number, in fact almost all of eastern Europeans were able to speak perfect english and use the correct dialect"
    Amazing research guys, keep up the good work!
     
    Add Arnisss to Rail
  3. I've ran like crap for the past few months. Must be fixed lol.

    I've played more than 65k hands in a month though, that isn't that much.

    It's not surprising you can find unusual play when you sift through a large amount of data. Some players like to gamble....

    Also lol at the eastern European thing. I've met quite a few via poker that I speak to on skype and they do all pretty much speak perfect English. You do know it's the number 1 most spoke language in the world right? FACT
    Add Rbunce to Rail
  4. lol sick sample size. Please go away
     
    Add pokerscrub1 to Rail
  5. 1) A legitimate study does not withhold the names of the people involved. Unless you post who the poker players, statisticians and industry experts are, this has no legitimacy.

    2) 36k hands is a small sample.

    3) lol at recording in boom replayer when it's so much easier with a hud. you must not know what you're doing

    4) Anecdotal evidence with your stories isn't fact. Where is the summary of your analysis in statistical form?
    Edited By: tyson219 May 6th, 2014 at 04:13 PM
     
    Add tyson219 to Rail
  6. lol
    Add BenFaz to Rail
  7. wow sick research, bad play n a 3 dollar satty, shocking
    Edited By: mattdb9er May 6th, 2014 at 04:28 PM
     
    Add mattdb9er to Rail
  8. Two threads merged and moved to bad beats. Please post any variance or bad beat related topics in the bad beat forum going forward.

    Constructive comment, 36k hands is nothing, should be easy to get your hands on over 1 million "random" hands.

    Less constructive, but reality based comments. I am not sure why the DOJ would care about this considering PokerStars isn't operating there, but I would hope that this biased study on a small sample size wouldn't sway them anyway. This is another tin foil hat thread with no evidence being posted even in this tiny sample size. Love the bias in your OP despite the fact you insist on being unbiased.
    Add wackyJaxon to Rail
  9. Ask stars for them to send you 1 million hands then analyse it. They will comply.
    Add djdoodoo to Rail
  10.  
    Originally Posted by pokerstars_rigged View Post

    There has been an ongoing debate for many years about the legitimacy of Poker stars and other online poker networks. Conspiracy or fact ?

    Our first report will reveal the statistics and data gathered from analyzing over 36,000 hands on The Pokerstars network.
    Our researchers played in a variety of low to mid stakes SNG's and Rebuys tournaments in the first quarter of 2014 and the information was filed analysed and studied by several experienced poker pro's, a qualified statistician and two key industry experts.
    We will continue our research anonymously ( for now) and present the DOJ ( Department of justice) with a full detailed report in the foreseeable future.
    Our findings will not only astound you but will question the legitimacy of the site.
    Strange betting patterns, fake accounts, unbelievable plays and rigged flops to create action.
    We are all well aware of petitions online and its a known fact that Pokerstars has people working on numerous forums such as 2+2 right the way up to senior management level.So we will release the information we gathered in segments over the coming months.( thank you for your patience)

    In order to make a full assessment and have unbiased data we also need to hear from anyone who has experienced "strange" occurrences and witnessed similar situations to those we will outline in our up coming blogs.

    OK so back to the research,for obvious reasons we will not reveal all the personal details and names so we can continue with our research.
    Lets start with when we entered 8 of our researchers to play in a $3.30 Re-buy satellite. Firstly we found that a huge number, in fact almost all of eastern Europeans were able to speak perfect english and use the correct dialect, as we purposely engaged them in conversation.Strange but not impossible, maybe they had exceptional teachers.

    All our researchers played conservatively and as we approached the business end of the tournaments we really started to see some very strange betting patterns and unbelievable suck outs, bad beats. Luckily with the introduction of boom player we were able to record what went on to support our findings.
    One of many examples we have on file.
    A player, lets call him player X made a small raise from mid position and was called by the cut off,one our our researchers (lets call them all player R) was holding pocket Aces and shoved all in, an immediate call from from player X (risking his tournament life ) and a fold from the other player sat at the table. Player X revealed hole cards of 3 6 os. The flop 4 5 7. Amazed at this play we searched the player and found him entered into 4 other similar games.We observed his tables over the next hour or so and we began to see a pattern emerging. On one table 2 from the money he again went all in with 8 3 os only to get a call from a player holding AKs and hit a Full house on the flop. Again amazed at what we saw we studied some of the other plays made by player X. And quickly found that if an opponent did not shove pre flop there was always plenty of action to induce an all in bet on the turn and river only for player X to call and hit EVERY TIME, 6/6.

    We searched for the players data on all the big and smaller sites, sharkscope, pokerprolabs, playerscope etc and found nothing.

    We also observed other opponents ( not our researchers) question his play and make accusations against him claiming he was hitting/winning because he was "Russian" on 3 of the 4 occasions we witnessed this he was re-seated at another table.

    We all may have theories and can all see the benefits of a "rigged" site, after all they make money from rake and entry fees and there is a lot more we can go into regarding this but for now we just want to stick to the FACTS. We will publish more data over the coming days.

    As mentioned previously we have detailed data, Boom replays to support our findings but would like to hear from anyone else who has experienced anything they feel could help support this research so we can present a full unbiased report to the DOJ. who can then further investigate the matter and hopefully get to the truth.

    Feel free to comment, contact or share your experiences.

    All comments are without prejudice and in no way related to the sites on which they are published/posted and based on fact gathered over 36,432 hands played on poker stars in the first quarter of 2014.

    Regards
    The research team.

    MY QQ GOT CRACKED BY 88 AND KQ TWICE LAST MONTH VS THE SAME PLAYER... DOES THE RNG SEEM TO FAVOR THIS HOUSE POKER STARS PLAYER NAMED IMDANUTS???
     
    Add allani12 to Rail
  11.  
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post

    1) A legitimate study does not withhold the names of the people involved. Unless you post who the poker players, statisticians and industry experts are, this has no legitimacy.

    2) 36k hands is a small sample.

    3) lol at recording in boom replayer when it's so much easier with a hud. you must not know what you're doing

    4) Anecdotal evidence with your stories isn't fact. Where is the summary of your analysis in statistical form?

    It's perfectly acceptable to not post who is involved until the study is complete. Most people aren't even announcing stuff like this before the study is complete.
    Add djdoodoo to Rail
  12. I had regged a few SCOOP events for tonight but after reading through the findings of your rigorous experiment I snap unregged. I didn't see Player X in the lobby but couldn't take the chance because those sneaky Eastern Europeans like to late-reg.
     
    Add JDoug to Rail
  13.  
    Originally Posted by JDoug View Post

    I had regged a few SCOOP events for tonight but after reading through the findings of your rigorous experiment I snap unregged. I didn't see Player X in the lobby but couldn't take the chance because those sneaky Eastern Europeans like to late-reg.

    you should have asked them any random question. if they respond in English, it is very suspicious!
     
    Add Arnisss to Rail
  14.  
    Originally Posted by djdoodoo View Post

    It's perfectly acceptable to not post who is involved until the study is complete. Most people aren't even announcing stuff like this before the study is complete.


    That's the point. If you're going to announce something as fact and then not provide any substantive evidence or provide the authors (who might lend credibility if legitimate), then you shouldn't be making the post to begin with.
     
    Add tyson219 to Rail
  15.  
    Originally Posted by tyson219 View Post

    That's the point. If you're going to announce something as fact and then not provide any substantive evidence or provide the authors (who might lend credibility if legitimate), then you shouldn't be making the post to begin with.

    CAN U PLEASE PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT POKERSTARS DOES NOT USE HOUSEBOTS?WHAT ABOUT THE POKERSTARS RNG ANY PROOF COACH? B12ATM
     
    Add allani12 to Rail
  16. I can relate.

    You want to hear a strange occurrence? I once satellited into the Sunday Warm Up and found myself, out of the 1000+ players already registered, on the same table as Moorman1 - who "apparently" is good. Coincidence? I think not.

    I then did my research and found a live video of Moorman shove all-in pre-flop with 7-5off, so he OBVIOUSLY can't play, yet he's somehow the biggest winner in online MTT history. Weird, eh?

    My findings astounded me. Strange betting patterns and unbelievable plays, yet he was somehow still winning pots.

    AND he was able to speak perfect English and use the correct dialect, as I purposely engaged him in conversation.

    My conclusion? RIGGED.
     
    Add Supafuz to Rail
  17.  
    Originally Posted by allani12 View Post

    CAN U PLEASE PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT POKERSTARS DOES NOT USE HOUSEBOTS?WHAT ABOUT THE POKERSTARS RNG ANY PROOF COACH? B12ATM


    Studies not done yet allani omg.
    Add djdoodoo to Rail
  18. Unbaised research provided by 'pokerstars_rigged'
     
    Add JDoug to Rail
  19.  
    Originally Posted by JDoug View Post

    Unbaised research provided by 'pokerstars_rigged'


    lmao, I didn't catch that.
    Add Rbunce to Rail
  20. they might be using a different "client program altogether" imho and oooot

    Just my 5 pence wurth ;) I sincerely suggest that if house bots on are on the normal schedule whos the top 1000 mtt players playing all the time on the same tournaments.

    Question : Do you ever see MOORMAN1 playing sattlites to sundaymillion/ scoop and the such.

    Now I beat a player last week online at pokerstars called SNGwizard ,but theres no knowledge of such a person or hes kept himself/herself preety quiet. players dont like to be found out thier real identitys yet we all know who MOORMAN1 is and all the other PROFESSIONALS ARE.!

    hmmm hope this study shows some serious results
    Add doc31 to Rail
  21. lets face it ,do u see all them dodgy russians/afghanistanis and other weirdo country named players in the large scoop events?

    Theres defo only a legit set "group" of players playing serious poker on this site and anyone else who deposits money just gets to play against the donks/fish/weirdo country named players.

    maybe im not thinking like it logically but you never see MOORMAN1 and all the others playing sattlites very much .

    Some strange stuff playing against foriegn players , I dont mind playing that group of 1000 or so players but if they put in house props or bots then what chances have we got /? are they just making the numbers up to evenly distribute the prizepools?

    I would like to think I actually could play all these suckers live ,its just a shame I blew my whole entire roll at highstakes plo and and mentally ill due to my 8 year losing run at onliner poker.
    guess thats why I am not playing much live nowadays .I used to own my casino ,even those pesky cameras never worked i got a good few tricks for them things these days .

    Pokerstars privacy policy needs amended for not sending out spam on thier webpages and domain.fed up seeing "doubleclick.net" everytime i load up that freaking website and have the poker client installation program close the program and give me a ie webpage that contains the very same privacy policy that embeds spam and advertising trackers.

    adure /goodbye/ Au revoir/ laters

    Its a shame english french and german are the only languages i kinda know about.actually probably less english these days .
    Add doc31 to Rail
  22. JUST TO SAY I GOT HUGE RESPECT TOO FOR MOORMAN1 , FROM BRIGHTON . EVEN THOUGH HES MUCH MUCH A YOUNGER PLAYER THAN ME.

    SUPERB GIFTED POKER PLAYER WHO RUNS EXTREMELY WELL ONLINE LIKE A FEW OTHERS I WONT BOTHER MENTIONING.

    IM A LEGEND TOO THOUGH IN MY OWN VIGOUR . EVERYONE KNOWS THAT ....FK online poker
    Add doc31 to Rail
  23. ffs all stars does is teach you how to deal with downswing variance... its all its good for. GO play live if you want a real game

    PokerStars Hand #116190886526: Tournament #894306923, $12.30+$12.25+$2.45 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (250/500) - 2014/05/14 15:53:44 MT [2014/05/14 17:53:44 ET]
    Table '894306923 242' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: PokerHorst (32284 in chips)
    Seat 2: KING_CLUB8 (16237 in chips)
    Seat 3: THUGSTYLE69 (36743 in chips)
    Seat 4: AVALON1983 (33075 in chips)
    Seat 5: E.Viltseva (26433 in chips)
    Seat 6: TheLipoFund (16094 in chips)
    Seat 7: AdenerS (13763 in chips)
    Seat 8: The_Pr0filer (45902 in chips) is sitting out
    Seat 9: Supreme Star (7864 in chips)
    PokerHorst: posts the ante 60
    KING_CLUB8: posts the ante 60
    THUGSTYLE69: posts the ante 60
    AVALON1983: posts the ante 60
    E.Viltseva: posts the ante 60
    TheLipoFund: posts the ante 60
    AdenerS: posts the ante 60
    The_Pr0filer: posts the ante 60
    Supreme Star: posts the ante 60
    THUGSTYLE69: posts small blind 250
    AVALON1983: posts big blind 500
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to KING_CLUB8 [Kd Ac]
    E.Viltseva: folds
    TheLipoFund: folds
    AdenerS: folds
    The_Pr0filer: folds
    Supreme Star: folds
    PokerHorst: raises 500 to 1000
    KING_CLUB8: calls 1000
    THUGSTYLE69: calls 750
    AVALON1983: calls 500
    *** FLOP *** [3h 3d As]
    THUGSTYLE69: bets 2220
    AVALON1983: folds
    PokerHorst: folds
    KING_CLUB8: calls 2220
    *** TURN *** [3h 3d As] [Ad]
    THUGSTYLE69: checks
    KING_CLUB8: bets 12957 and is all-in
    THUGSTYLE69: calls 12957
    *** RIVER *** [3h 3d As Ad] [Th]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    THUGSTYLE69: shows [Td Ah] (a full house, Aces full of Tens)
    KING_CLUB8: shows [Kd Ac] (a full house, Aces full of Threes)
    THUGSTYLE69 collected 34894 from pot
    THUGSTYLE69 wins $11.48 for eliminating KING_CLUB8 and their own bounty increases by $11.48 to $51.27
    KING_CLUB8 finished the tournament in 3644th place
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 34894 | Rake 0
    Board [3h 3d As Ad Th]
    Seat 1: PokerHorst folded on the Flop
    Seat 2: KING_CLUB8 (button) showed [Kd Ac] and lost with a full house, Aces full of Threes
    Seat 3: THUGSTYLE69 (small blind) showed [Td Ah] and won (34894) with a full house, Aces full of Tens
    Seat 4: AVALON1983 (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 5: E.Viltseva folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: TheLipoFund folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: AdenerS folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: The_Pr0filer folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: Supreme Star folded before Flop (didn't bet)
     
    Add P0LarAcE to Rail
  24. OMG SO FIXED. That would never happen live!
    Add Rbunce to Rail
  25. Check/ fold river. You have a full house, aces full of threes & your opponent has a full house, aces full of tens which is a better hand.
     
    Add JDoug to Rail
  26. the place is a fucking joke at times for sure
     
    Add P0LarAcE to Rail
  27. The real truth of Pokerstars and Full Tilt Poker

    The problem: How to get people hooked on to the site, to keep them depositing more and more money, and generate more rake?

    psychology: As long as a person is not able to win he will keep trying, if suffers bad beat then, he will also try to tilt others

    Solution: Action flops, manipulated RNG so that it is able to generate 5 random results until the one it needs, as they themselves write in their terms and conditions that results of rng can be neglected for 5 times, this is a good way to manipulate.

    Technological solution: Profile the players, the regular sharks need to be controlled otherwise they will devour the beginners, so deliver bad beats to them so that they get in line with the skill of a novice. Make novice's win to retain them, keep tilting sharks, so they keep com

    How to protect over selves? Hide in countries without government regulation where you can buy the government like gibraltar, keep source code secret, get audits done from bought auditors.


    I have played years and years on this site, and can vouch that it follows the full tilt approach and is minting money by hooking unsuspecting fishes, it is making at least a ten thousand dollars of profit a day.

    If they were not to adopt these shady practices their site traffic would not peak at 200000 but would be about 10000 .

    If they were not to do this then their day profit would not become 10000 usd but remain that their monthly profit.


    --------------------------------------------
    And believe me they can delete all the technological traces in split seconds, they will leave no trace of their wrongdoings. Even if any player sees in his own hand histories who thinks that he is not getting the right no. of aces, and his AA is cracking more than 15% of the time against QT offsuite.


    The online world is rigged of scams, bitcoin scam, poker scam, and it is so easy to scam, every poker site online is rigged. Because that way people get tilted and would deposit more and more. They can steal from unsuspecting people.

    Money stolen is twice as sweet as money earned anyways. So all you people who rant about bad beats on online poker recognize that it's all a scam.

    If you were to play for 4 days a month you would not notice it and probably you would be on tilt exclusion list, but if you were to play daily and jump around different games and stakes you would defenitely experience tilt and too many bad beats.

    The secret pokerstars code to prevent bad beats is as follows
    1. Play on a fixed stake and a fixed game like only a 8$ SNG 180man
    2. Have a bankroll that is at least 100 times the game played
    3. If bad beats occuring shut off games for a week.
    Add jokerstars to Rail
  28. Did we really need this thread by someone with no proof of anything when there is plenty of evidence that PokerStars is legit?
    Add wackyJaxon to Rail
  29. Thank you for the interesting post, all your findings I am well aware of.

    However, nobody ever listens.

    I will easily prove to you that Pokerstars is not rigged and impossible to rig. Although I will agree that the process has fault.


    Internet poker, is simply not the same as live poker, the title alone excludes any findings that are comparable to live poker are null and void.


    It is internet poker, that is different .


    You see a player shoving 83 and watch him on other tables, well if that is their nature, of cause I would expect him shove crap again.


    This does not make it rigged.
    Add theorist to Rail
  30. I do have proof, I opened a new account with pokerstars, I won the first two 2.50$ SNG rank 2. Then I finished the 2.5$ SNG in third rank. In about the first 3 days I won about 450$ in online mtt tournaments,

    then I keep trying for 1 week and keep losing every tourney, with hands like AA vs Q7 winning, KK vs J7 offsuit winning, KQ vs TJ winning.

    So many people can't be wrong.
    Add jokerstars to Rail