1. My hands live and my hands online are virtually the same over the same sample size. It is good to know they must be rigging it in my favor. I lucked out on that draw.
    Add JustALurker to Rail
  2. Very funny btw. I appreciate good humor.
    Add artbaron to Rail
  3.  
    Originally Posted by Cooker View Post

    +1 for the four year old who understands graphs.
    Add JustALurker to Rail
  4. Not sure if you picked up on it Mr Lurker but at no time have i ever suggested that the site is rigged for individuals . My suspicions of the site actually came as a surprise. I noted that i am just a weekend player but one of the guys i played with did quit his day job to play all the time and four years later he is still playing at casinos. He certainly was above average and nobody ever thought there was anything strange regarding his game play.
    After a few of us moved away i started watching pokerstars and my suspicions about the site had nothing to do with whining because i never played for cash. Myself like thousands of others are simply saying that we think the site produces situations where people believe they have a high probability of wining (based on probable outcomes which have not changed since 1999 lol) and yet inexplicably they receive a higher number of bad beats than one would expect based on probability.
    I am open to the possibility that we are all wrong but i also posted a thread from a forum where the guy said he does not believe it is rigged but that citcedel expressed in the certification process that they only looked at pokerstars random system to the point of the deal. It is therefore possible that the system could have algorithms in place that would manipulate outcomes.
    Furthermore your comment regarding the reasons why they would not "risk" their legitimate millions doesn't really make sense. If tomorrow pokerstars admitted that their software produced patterns to increase the rake no one would be able to litigate because the system still would not be cheating individuals nut only skewing the odds in certain circumstances. There might be people who would leave if pokerstars admitted it was skewed but it is just as likely people would play more thinking they could win trying to predict the patterns.
    All kinds of threads online (thousands ) from players that post examples of actual game play with video where people bet all in because they have 90 percent chance of wining and then lose on the river and that the bad beats are happening at unbelievably high percentages. One of the first thing i posted was that the first day i watched i saw a guy get taken out when the river card produced k quads over his j quads - odds of it happening-
    Between two players there are 9 total cards. These must consist of two four of a kinds and one singleton. The number of combinations for this is combin(13,2)*44 = 3432. The total number of ways to pick 9 cards out of 52 is combin(52,9) = 3,679,075,400. So the probability you have the right cards, but not necessarily in the right order, is 3432/3,679,075,400 = 1 in 1,071,992.
    So regardless of low probability we all know if you play enough or just happen to be in the right place these things are going to happen. I watched and played for free for a month and my own personal experience convinced me that outlier hands - stuff you would see rarely in live play seemed to be an everyday occurrence on the site.
    Add artbaron to Rail
  5.  
    Originally Posted by Cooker View Post

    [ giant chart not quoting from last page

    http://www.thegreatgrind.com/2014/05...sh-game-poker/

    Today I learned AQo > AKs
    Add TMLMS13 to Rail
  6. Your earlier link sent me to this post i assume as evidence that the majority believe it is not.

    View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
    Yes 2,998 34.62%
    No 4,969 57.39%
    Undecided 692 7.99%

    I hope the poll does not exclude those who have never played ( although it should) because if millions of people think they are seeing patterns that would actually surprise me. The fact that a high percentage of players are questioning if the computer might be using patterns to increase the rake would lead a person to believe that it is a realistic possibility. I have never heard people argue that state lotteries are rigged (although i am sure people do) because there isn't the same possibility to increase profits like what would exit if online poker created a higher percentage of monster hands. I have never argued that those hands where being directed at certain players as there is no need to do that if they just wanted to increase speed or the rake of various games
    I had read a thread earlier by a player who has played for many years at online poker and he said that while he thought it was skewed he didn't think it was directed at anyone. I realize threads like this are not evidence and even thousands of hands of compiled for data can still be argued away as nothing more than random chance. It would take a very large sample size from pokerstars that could be independently verified ( since corporations like enron, world corp etc had no problem creating fictitious tax returns - even when they didn't need to MR Lurker) in order to really end this debate
    Add artbaron to Rail
  7. LOL
    Add artbaron to Rail
  8. " My hands live and my hands online are virtually the same over the same sample size. It is good to know they must be rigging it in my favor. I lucked out on that draw".

    You tracked a large sample of your live play hands?
    Add artbaron to Rail
  9. LOL good edit but i would not have bothered to pretend i didn't understand what you where saying the first time
    Add artbaron to Rail
  10. Yea...I'm not going to read any of that but A+ for big blocks of text.
    Add JustALurker to Rail
  11. " My hands live and my hands online are virtually the same over the same sample size. It is good to know they must be rigging it in my favor. I lucked out on that draw".

    You tracked a large sample of your live play hands?
    Add artbaron to Rail
  12. yes.
    Add JustALurker to Rail
  13. Hoooooly god please stop telling us about hands where your homeboy wagered x% of his chips with quads and other guy called with trips but hit his miracle river and lost - do you not understand that this is almost irrelevant and the only thing you are doing is building a larger wall of text and diluting any 'good' points your posts may contain
     
    Add JDoug to Rail
  14. he did it for the lulz.
    Add JustALurker to Rail
  15. no way he used the phrase 'whining and losing' that many times by accident. obv level is obv.
    Add Cooker to Rail
  16.  
    Originally Posted by TMLMS13 View Post

    Today I learned AQo > AKs


    look again scrote
    Add Cooker to Rail
  17. Ive had pocket jacks in a live tournie and my opponent had pocket queens.
    Flop came JQQ.
    Can we start a thread about how live poker is rigged aswel. ;)
    Add pazza0303 to Rail
  18.  
    Originally Posted by pazza0303 View Post

    Ive had pocket jacks in a live tournie and my opponent had pocket queens.
    Flop came JQQ.
    Can we start a thread about how live poker is rigged aswel. ;)

    Artbaron has probably already told 2 of his mates and posted about this hand on 3 other forums
     
    Add JDoug to Rail
  19. Add wackyJaxon to Rail
  20. [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]It is clearly evident that all online poker is completely rigged and manipulated. What is completely apparent is that the ingenious card systems used by online poker sites are designed in such a way so as to calculate and manipulate all card possibilities for the remaining players in a hand thereby designed to maximise the rake returns of the poker provider.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Do not continue as your losses are insurmountable with these SCUM organisations that will exploit your custom until your dying day. With the help of our learned associates from Imperial College, London, we have evidence to suggest the crooked nature of their card systems which will inevitably be utilised in holding their seniority accountable for their despicable actions.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]BELIEVE US AND DO NOT PLAY ONLINE POKER [/SIZE][/FONT]
    Add ssimple010 to Rail
  21. I dont think that online poker is rigged but one of the things that seem's to be a problem is when your deep in a tourney and you get the most outstanding beats! i mean when it really matters to your tourney and you get sucked out by someone who has no reason to be in the hand which seems to happen to me all the time boohoo lol, not that i run deep all the time but when i do make the last 2-3 tables you get AA,KK,QQ and busted by someone who has much less of a hand small pockets or connectors 7-8 9-10 ect ect but our day will come just keep plugging RUNGREAT
    Add 07keith to Rail
  22. UltimateBet is rigged.
    Add JustALurker to Rail
  23. man, its not rigged. its just a luck game. stop thinking this is chess. its gambling its luck, everyone that plays poker nowadays feels the need to be a "pro" just play and enjoy. don't give up job for a mainly luck game
     
    Add frick to Rail
  24. I've Been playing pocket stars for 7 years now. Proved profitable up until Black Friday break even then till 2013 killed zoom in 4 days for 13k from a 100$ bankroll as I've always set this as a starting bankroll then cash out at 1k. This time though I was playing zoom with what most would call online regs and pros. Here's the funny thing. Startet to see a pattern of foul play. And collusion from 3 players on the 2/5nl and 1/2nl zoom tables. Odd 3,4,5 and 6 bet plays when I was holding AAs KKs and sets on flop. Every time I'm 80+% favourite trapping perfectly only to be sucked out on. But every time they were shipping ATC apart from pockets preflop and totally bluffing the flop when I hit set on flush draw boards not to chase flush either but ended up hitting runner runner for straight or flush. I had the same players when I engaged in conversation about their play in other hands call down to river and shove on me telling me my hand. Which of course was correct. The final thing that got me to take action was I was playing in a mid level Mtt around the bubble with 126bb stack then got moved to another table. Where things started to get funny medium stacks getting aggressive when I'm holding AAs, KKs and AK same old 3,4, 5 bet bluffs. Of course I'm getting it in only to be sucked out on by any 2 random cards. 16bb and bubble not burst I wait out to see if I can float into the money. Leave my laptop in view in the table and pick up my drink turn to my wife and tell how ridiculously stupid this is and as I turn back AAs auto fold and I wasn't even sitting out. Pissed me off right yes of course it did. So I sit back take a sip on my drink then all of a sudden my curser starts moving round my screen and clicking on my account on different options and settings in the pocketstars lobby.

    I emailed stars about this and they investigated. This was around the time I can remember an online reg had his stars account hacked and was defrauded at the same stakes for 45k. So yes I became a little concerned. Of course I pointed this out to them.

    Obviously nothing was found.

    So I decided to withdraw 5k after being ripped for 6k left the rest in and the bankroll got anihalated. Ever since that day I've been constantly on what pokerstars say a bit of 'variance'.

    Yes I still play at micro level these days in hope things will change lol. Big hope that is.

    As the investigation goes from I have with witnessed all of these. So many Russians speaking perfect English is the best. They don't understand poker math, theory ev spots, ICM and so on but speak perfect English. Give me a break and pull the other one for all that defend stars on this one.

    I've recently decided enough is enough I'm done with investing anymore money into Stars. In fact I'm asking them the real questions.

    See email below to which they have not Responded. I've sent hundreds and every time had a reply about there random shuffle being audited and fair etc.

    But not this time as I asked the real question many people fail too.
    Hi,

    Could you please now explain the huge deviation in these all-in preflop situations with premium hands over a 14,314 hand sample from all variables at Pokerstars?

    AAs v any two cards win 81.1% SHOULD BE 85.2% 233 HANDS deviation of 4.1%

    KKs v ATC win 78.2% SHOULD BE 82.4% 271 HANDS deviation of 4.2%

    QQs v ATC win 66.4% SHOULD BE 79.93% 274 HANDS deviation of 13%

    JJS v ATC win 65.0% SHOULD BE 77.47% 240 HANDS deviation of 12.4%

    10s v ATC win 63.9% SHOULD BE 75..01% 252 HANDS deviation of 11.2%

    AKs v ATC win 61.5% SHOULD BE 65.75% 148 HANDS deviation of 4.70%

    This is just the top 6 starting hands in preflop races which clearly states huge deviations especially alarming QQs v ATC at 13%. At this sample size clearly shows that there is no variance at play here because neither any of these are above or even close to what they should be!

    And to finish off you still did not answer my question below.

    Why is there no proof of your deal after the flop ever being regulated?

    Regards

    Kelvin Rowlands
    KUNNYKEL

    From: xxxx@xxxx.com
    To: xxxx@xxxxxs.com
    Subject: MMT Bubble SNG Turbo Recreational Players
    Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 21:26:07 +0000

    Dear Pokerstars,

    Having played I very large volume of hands at your tables for the past 6 years being a very good player with great understanding of the game very profitable for a micro stakes player until 2011. I am inaugurated to know a few fundamental things as I'm seriously considering closing my account down and playing at another online poker room.

    Please give the courtesy of not sending me a reply about your random shuffle being fair and regulated because this is not the topic here. Any software can shuffle and deal out a random and fair shuffle preflop.
    What I would like to know is why do you refer to variance when a player will constantly bubble or have their AAs, KKs, QQs cracked 100s of games in a row in preflop race when shoving a healthy stack 10-15 BB deep into a similar stack or even forget stack sizes here why are they losing so much to bigger stacks or the complete short stack at a time of the bubble? This is clearly where the good player knows he is massive favorite to win the hand more than 80% of the time and either doubles up and builds a stack big enough to make a large cash or take out the shortstack and burst the bubble. It is happening to me and others for that matter thousands of times.

    Why also in turbos and hyper turbos are the shortstack always winning flips when majority of the time they are only 30% - 40% favorite when the average decent player shoving correct hand ranges into them and thus not picking up easy dead money?

    Why do I always get bubbled constantly in MTTs on the bubble when I'm shoving into a stack of similar size who usually is a reg or a bigger stack for half their stacks with premium hands AAs through to 100s AK AQ always to lose to under pair or a weaker Ace? One thing to note I'm the aggressor here clear favorite almost always making the play on the bubble when the opponent has complete fold equity even more so with such a poor hand only for them to call and outright win the hand no matter what their holding. Clearly show signs of suspicion to foul play on the overall outcome of the hand on the dealers part or bots are inserted into the game along with foul play of the deck. This is a reoccurring pattern over thousands of hands. Not just is this happening to me but I see it to many others at the tables same patterns reoccurring.

    Why in Turbos and hyper turbos are their patterns when The 60% favorite pleflop in a race hits the flop hard only to have his hand cracked by the same type of straight and backdoor flush draws 47% of the time?

    Why are all these things always happening at the time of the bubble and never before or after?

    And finally? Why is there no proof of your deal after the flop ever being regulated?

    Out of curiosity I would like if Pokerstars could allow for me to have a cash bonus to take a bankroll building challenge which would be played at micro stakes 20-40 buy in rule for 9,18 and 45 man turbos and 50-100 rule for MTTs. I'm sick of redepositing my own money over and of due to Apparent variance which has lasted 5 years with only the odd upswing as an when your software feels like it.

    Take this opportunity as a form of good will and an opportunity to blog my bankroll building challenge at Pokerschool online and possibly put some element of faith back into not just mine but opinions of thousands of players suffering the same feat and thinking and talking about in forums all over the poker community.

    Any finally definition of variance

    "Poker is a game of skill. It also has an element of chance due to the distribution of cards and the randomness of the shuffle. Another way to define variance is that it is a measure of the chance element in the short term."

    Regards,,

    Kelvin Rowlands

    KUNNYKEL
    Add kunnykel to Rail
  25. Oh just before I wrote my last post this amused me but keeps happening.

    com)

    *********** # 1 **************
    PokerStars Hand #150320788589: Tournament #1498463245, $0.50+$0.05 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (1250/2500) - 2016/03/14 1:34:58 WET [2016/03/13 21:34:58 ET]
    Table '1498463245 65' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: KUNNYKEL (70319 in chips)
    Seat 2: gabriel61987 (107689 in chips)
    Seat 3: vcrepaldi94 (33125 in chips)
    Seat 4: APOELI209 (84590 in chips)
    Seat 5: rider0761 (5747 in chips)
    Seat 6: SergioOlenka (73241 in chips)
    Seat 8: lutik4 (33227 in chips)
    Seat 9: NESH.DC (72310 in chips)
    KUNNYKEL: posts the ante 310
    gabriel61987: posts the ante 310
    vcrepaldi94: posts the ante 310
    APOELI209: posts the ante 310
    rider0761: posts the ante 310
    SergioOlenka: posts the ante 310
    lutik4: posts the ante 310
    NESH.DC: posts the ante 310
    SergioOlenka: posts small blind 1250
    lutik4: posts big blind 2500
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to KUNNYKEL [Ks Jc]
    NESH.DC: folds
    KUNNYKEL: raises 3200 to 5700
    gabriel61987: calls 5700
    vcrepaldi94: folds
    APOELI209: folds
    rider0761: folds
    SergioOlenka: calls 4450
    lutik4: calls 3200
    *** FLOP *** [9h 9s Qc]
    SergioOlenka: checks
    lutik4: checks
    KUNNYKEL: checks
    gabriel61987: checks
    *** TURN *** [9h 9s Qc] [Th]
    SergioOlenka: bets 12500
    lutik4: raises 14717 to 27217 and is all-in
    KUNNYKEL: calls 27217
    gabriel61987: raises 74462 to 101679 and is all-in
    SergioOlenka: calls 54731 and is all-in
    KUNNYKEL: calls 37092 and is all-in
    Uncalled bet (34448) returned to gabriel61987
    *** RIVER *** [9h 9s Qc Th] [Qs]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    SergioOlenka: shows [9d Jh] (a full house, Nines full of Queens)
    gabriel61987: shows [Jd Kd] (a straight, Nine to King)
    SergioOlenka collected 5844 from side pot-2
    KUNNYKEL: shows [Ks Jc] (a straight, Nine to King)
    SergioOlenka collected 111276 from side pot-1
    lutik4: shows [8c Js] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
    SergioOlenka collected 134148 from main pot
    KUNNYKEL finished the tournament in 134th place and received $1.41.
    lutik4 finished the tournament in 135th place and received $1.41.
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 251268 Main pot 134148. Side pot-1 111276. Side pot-2 5844. | Rake 0
    Board [9h 9s Qc Th Qs]
    Seat 1: KUNNYKEL showed [Ks Jc] and lost with a straight, Nine to King
    Seat 2: gabriel61987 showed [Jd Kd] and lost with a straight, Nine to King
    Seat 3: vcrepaldi94 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: APOELI209 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: rider0761 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: SergioOlenka (small blind) showed [9d Jh] and won (251268) with a full house, Nines full of Queens
    Seat 8: lutik4 (big blind) showed [8c Js] and lost with a straight, Eight to Queen
    Seat 9: NESH.DC folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Add kunnykel to Rail
  26.  
    Originally Posted by kunnykel View Post

    Oh just before I wrote my last post this amused me but keeps happening.

    com)

    *********** # 1 **************
    PokerStars Hand #150320788589: Tournament #1498463245, $0.50+$0.05 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (1250/2500) - 2016/03/14 1:34:58 WET [2016/03/13 21:34:58 ET]
    Table '1498463245 65' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: KUNNYKEL (70319 in chips)
    Seat 2: gabriel61987 (107689 in chips)
    Seat 3: vcrepaldi94 (33125 in chips)
    Seat 4: APOELI209 (84590 in chips)
    Seat 5: rider0761 (5747 in chips)
    Seat 6: SergioOlenka (73241 in chips)
    Seat 8: lutik4 (33227 in chips)
    Seat 9: NESH.DC (72310 in chips)
    KUNNYKEL: posts the ante 310
    gabriel61987: posts the ante 310
    vcrepaldi94: posts the ante 310
    APOELI209: posts the ante 310
    rider0761: posts the ante 310
    SergioOlenka: posts the ante 310
    lutik4: posts the ante 310
    NESH.DC: posts the ante 310
    SergioOlenka: posts small blind 1250
    lutik4: posts big blind 2500
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to KUNNYKEL [Ks Jc]
    NESH.DC: folds
    KUNNYKEL: raises 3200 to 5700
    gabriel61987: calls 5700
    vcrepaldi94: folds
    APOELI209: folds
    rider0761: folds
    SergioOlenka: calls 4450
    lutik4: calls 3200
    *** FLOP *** [9h 9s Qc]
    SergioOlenka: checks
    lutik4: checks
    KUNNYKEL: checks
    gabriel61987: checks
    *** TURN *** [9h 9s Qc] [Th]
    SergioOlenka: bets 12500
    lutik4: raises 14717 to 27217 and is all-in
    KUNNYKEL: calls 27217
    gabriel61987: raises 74462 to 101679 and is all-in
    SergioOlenka: calls 54731 and is all-in
    KUNNYKEL: calls 37092 and is all-in
    Uncalled bet (34448) returned to gabriel61987
    *** RIVER *** [9h 9s Qc Th] [Qs]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    SergioOlenka: shows [9d Jh] (a full house, Nines full of Queens)
    gabriel61987: shows [Jd Kd] (a straight, Nine to King)
    SergioOlenka collected 5844 from side pot-2
    KUNNYKEL: shows [Ks Jc] (a straight, Nine to King)
    SergioOlenka collected 111276 from side pot-1
    lutik4: shows [8c Js] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
    SergioOlenka collected 134148 from main pot
    KUNNYKEL finished the tournament in 134th place and received $1.41.
    lutik4 finished the tournament in 135th place and received $1.41.
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 251268 Main pot 134148. Side pot-1 111276. Side pot-2 5844. | Rake 0
    Board [9h 9s Qc Th Qs]
    Seat 1: KUNNYKEL showed [Ks Jc] and lost with a straight, Nine to King
    Seat 2: gabriel61987 showed [Jd Kd] and lost with a straight, Nine to King
    Seat 3: vcrepaldi94 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: APOELI209 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: rider0761 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: SergioOlenka (small blind) showed [9d Jh] and won (251268) with a full house, Nines full of Queens
    Seat 8: lutik4 (big blind) showed [8c Js] and lost with a straight, Eight to Queen
    Seat 9: NESH.DC folded before Flop (didn't bet)


    How does that make Pokerstars rigged? I had a hand just like that last night at my local pub game. It happens...doesn't mean that anything is rigged. There is even a term for this...we call it "Bad Beat". Just part of the game that you need to learn to deal with. If you consistently let it upset you then your results will never improve. Brush it off, move to the next hand, and continuously try to make the best decisions (not based on results of bad beats).
    Add JustALurker to Rail
  27. Hey JustaLurker,

    Did my post of the bad beat state why I believe Pokerstars is rigged?

    No! But you must have read the post prior which gives. Statistical data proving Stars are not dealing a fair game.

    Just in case you missed it......

    Hi,

    Could you please now explain the huge deviation in these all-in preflop situations with premium hands over a 14,314 hand sample from all variables at Pokerstars?

    AAs v any two cards win 81.1% SHOULD BE 85.2% 233 HANDS deviation of 4.1%

    KKs v ATC win 78.2% SHOULD BE 82.4% 271 HANDS deviation of 4.2%

    QQs v ATC win 66.4% SHOULD BE 79.93% 274 HANDS deviation of 13%

    JJS v ATC win 65.0% SHOULD BE 77.47% 240 HANDS deviation of 12.4%

    10s v ATC win 63.9% SHOULD BE 75..01% 252 HANDS deviation of 11.2%

    AKs v ATC win 61.5% SHOULD BE 65.75% 148 HANDS deviation of 4.70%

    These are the facts as I've pointed out to Pokerstars who have along with the rest of my analysis have decided not to reply.

    This just the top 6 hands and even over this sample size is showing large consistent irregularities of loss to the player. None close or even running above average.

    So please don't bother attempting to discredit members when the evidence of foul play is there for all to see!
    Add kunnykel to Rail
  28. lmfao some gold up in here
    Add bucketorocks to Rail
  29.  
    Originally Posted by bucketorocks View Post

    lmfao some gold up in here

    .
    Add JustALurker to Rail