Is poker stars rigged ? the facts.

## Is poker stars rigged ? the facts.

1. Finally, I decided to make my own qualitative research as most others are quantitative. So I deposited \$100 and played 100 \$3 spin and go's on Pokerstars to see what I could make of the rigged question. I have attached the notes from all tables that gives a bit insight into the hands and experiences. When I have gone through the data, the overall results (quantitative) are:

Wins: 37
Losses: 63

Money spent: 300
Money won: 330
Net win: 30 (10%)

Estimated time spent: 11h40m
Money won p/h: 2,57

Deciding coinflip won: 9
Deciding coinflips lost: 14

Very unlucky (lost >70% hands): 6 times
Very lucky (won <30% hands): 4 times

Games I outplayed the others: 9
Games I got outplayed: 3

Games I lost for playing badly (ie. my own big mistakes cost me the games): 7

"Mystery" persons who just could not be beaten (ie. Outrageously lucky player): 5

Since I outplayed more than I got outplayed (yet still got outplayed occasionally), I think it is a fair level that I made the research on.

Generally, the data don't seem to indicate riggedness at first glance. Mathematically I didn't hit the numbers, but since this was only 100 games, it's not a big deal.

However, it clearly does support the theory that you win more for the first games after making a deposit. If you see the first 32 games, I had won 16 of them (50%). In the last 68 games, I only won 21 (31%). Huge difference.

That brings me to the "mystery persons who just could not be beaten". I personally think they are people who just made deposits and have been blessed by the deposit fairy, just like I was in my first games...

I cashed out \$10 after 10 games, but that seemed to have no effect.

So my now confirmed suspicion is that they are rigged in the sense that depositing players have luck for a while... The interesting question is whether that's a good or bad thing?

Hope it helps.
Edited By: mfpoulsen Mar 28th, 2016 at 04:03 AM
Reason: typo
2. no. go home. you're drunk.
3. ... and you must be high... You know that you are not supposed to smoke everything you find on the fields in Cambodia, right?
4.
##### Originally Posted by Chapps30

So rigged, I mean why would he call with this???

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...825_F7EDCACFFC

check this out, instant call with 53os at 30/60 blinds 10k chips. i make an over-donk-raise and i admit it but how can he calls instant that sh1t ?
5. Thankfully there are still players that will call for almost 2,000 big blinds with crap. People say the game is getting harder, but when I hear stories like this, I see there are still players that do not care when they are playing. This provides some hope to many.
6. Is pokerstars rigged? Yes, but not in the way you're thinking. All gambling games have the odds stacked against you, not for you.

Theres people in here complaining they don't win tournaments, or that they don't place in the money. Well, if you look at how many people get paid, compared to how many people are playing, you'll have your answer there. Lets say for arguements sake, that only the top 30% of people will get a payout (15% of that making a modest profit to their buy-in price), that gives you 70% chance of walking away, saying goodbye to whatever your buy-in price was. and if you do get in the money, you then have 50% chance of raking in some tidy profit. This as a start, shows the odds are against you with an 15% of making some nice profit.

Then theres the players, every player is different, every player reacts differently, and ALOT of people will keep chasing, when they hit you complain about bad beats, completely ignoring the amount of times they've chased and missed. You instantly think the game is fixed and that the pokerstar voodoo is at work. Theres no force out to get you. If someone is shooting five bullets at you, and you dodge the first three, you dont presume you've won, so why should poker be any different? you can't presume you've won after only seeing the flop.

Than theres the all-in pre-flop complaints. you're shoooting in the dark, you can't complain about being beaten by bad cards when you have no idea what you're walking into. All-ins are HUGE risks regardless of what cards you have in your hand. And when someone calls your A,K s with 8,3 os, it's anyones game, if any card hits, it has a good % of standing (although it is bad play). You knew that you was shooting in the dark when you shoved all your money in the pot, so be prepared to lose it.

As for these players that have never lost a hand, it happens. I play RL, and a fortnight ago I came first in my local weekly tournament hitting the most monster hands possible. Alot of players thought I didn't lose a single hand, because they were blinded by their defeat, they didn't see the amount of hands I was pushed off, or the hands that I folded knowing it wasn't even worth entertaining. It's probably the same in this case. These people that "win everyhand" probably have a good case of luck, and know what to play. you moan because they have played some bad cards and hit a fullhouse. All I can say is.. who let them play those bad cards? who didn't put in a good raise to throw off the limpers? Even if you did put in a raise, was it their BB? was it a min raise? what was their chip stack? What was your chip stack? so many variants affect whether or not people call, regardless of what is in their hand.

That is poker, there is nothing you can do to win a high % of the time, you are probably fighting a losing battle as soon as you register. I'm an amatuer poker player, I'm severely in the red in pokerstars, yet, I don't claim that the game is biased, or rigged. I've depositted \$10 in one day and made it into \$300 on spin and go's, yet other days I've deposited \$50 dollars and not won a single thing back.

I don't believe it's rigged, all this talk of bots and players who are given high % of winning is nonesense, why would you affect your very career and life by putting in something which can be traced/recorded/caught onto, you just wouldn't do it. A bank robber doesnt walk into a bank wearing his name badge.

Poker is a gambling game, and gambling, is never in your favour, don't put yourself in something if you're not prepared to lose.

(My apologies for grammar, and if I said some idiotic things, just had to have my two cents)
7. If you are in a sitngo or tournament and you go all in and you have more chips and you lose they will make you next hand almost always win. Try it out if it happens
8. First Post

Hellz Yeah Online Poker Is Rigged and I Haz All The PROOFSSS!

Christ in a teacup people whine a lot.

Ok, I'm lately a losing player, just getting back into the game after 6 years

I usually only play play chips but sometimes load small amounts of money onto PokerStars
I used to play CarbonPoker all the time.

Fun fact: Last time I played there they still had the fun step sit and go tourneys. I thought they were fun.
I love playing poker.

This past week, I've had it rough, really rough. High pair at the flop, guy calls my weak bet and pulls a flush on the river after all in on the turn.
Just a few hands later, same guy, I flop top two pair (A-Qs) after a much better pre-flop raise, he called with suited gappers, calls my all in on the flop, and hits a fluch on the river again.

Yeah, sometimes it seems stacked against you. My whole week has been like this. Admittedly, some of the hands I misplayed and gave my opponents ok value on their draw, other hands I played in a way I can't comlain and lost anyway. Shit happens.

The main flaw in the whole "online poker is rigged camp" is that they seem to imply that a real deck of cards cannot end up "randomly" ordered in the same way as virtual deck of cards.

Now, sure, a virtual deck of cards can end up ordered from one hand to another in a way that is extremely improbable for a "seven riffle shuffled" physical deck to end up in. But a physical deck can still end up in any damned order imaginable. If it can't then it's controlled by something other than randomness.

A virtual deck is literally rebuilt from the ground up each hand, where a real deck is simply mixed up within itself. In fact, a perfect riffle shuffle where the deck is split evenly and cards are perfectly staggered between two sides would be quite predictable, without shuffling between them.

The Randomness of a virtual deck is largely irrelevant as long as the following two factors are true:
1. The order of the cards can't be predicted.
This can be a bit tricky because true randomness creates the unpredictability, but as long as the RNG is generating numbers in a way that is so complex or random enough that nobody can predict the outcome, even with full understanding of the algorithm, then that's good enough.

2. The cards in the deck are ordered at the beginning of the hand and that order is never modified until the hand is completely played.

As long as both of those conditions are met, there is no possible rigging. The RNG, as long as the deck order is consistent through the hand, cannot predict who will bet what. Sure, a poker site's system can probably infer what a player might do in a situation, but that bad player could be trying to get better, or might just not care on a certain day about playing well.

Another question, why are there so many similar bad beats when playing with fake money? Is that really a way to entice players to mak e a deposit? To show them how skewed and rigged their RNG is against them? Yes, as I said, I play predominantly with fake money for fun. Sometimes I just want to play like a total donk and there I can do it with impunity, other times, I want to try and outplay the donkfest, suckout, river-chasing people and work on my betting structure, which is much harder with play-chips because nobody is that scared of losing them. Can one of the pro-rigged camp people explain why the same thing happens on the play chip tables? Generating action on play chip tables doesn't lead to profits for the company, and if 8 people see some donk luck out on an all-in call with absolute tripe, it doesn't instill confidence in the RNG to a point where those 8 people will want to deposit. Maybe one donk will, thinking he's the next WSOP champ.

There's also the nature of the game online.
So many instance where you end up with a table full of calling stations.

According to some testing (not sure how people feel about each starting hand only being tested 400,000 times) at this site:
http://holdemtight.com/pgs/od/oddpgs...oldemhands.htm

Each starting hand was tested 400,000 times against a full table and all hands played to the river.
Pocket aces lost approx 2/3 of the time.

The more people in the pot chasing the r iver, the less chance pocket pairs have to stay good.
Edited By: Foldaset Jun 18th, 2016 at 04:26 PM
Reason: Added some things that I forgot the first time through
9. Somebody just had to bump it.
10. Yup
11. Don't you know?
Check this out then - I have played enough to know how to get to the top 20 if not top 10 everytime I play a tournament of a few thousand players within the first 10 minutes almost half the time- so afterwards of playing a couple pokerstars tournaments like suddenly my given cards change after a while about just ten minutes in-game to having literally no pairs whatsoever even till I see the river every play through them tables, I mean I highly doubt anything as I already know I'm up against teams bots hackers programs of these but to really not have a pair even with all the last 50 (all small cards like 2-5.3-4.2.6 or so or hopefully a lucky 7.6) I have been dealt through to river but maybe 1 or 2 pairs literally so you know I'm not lying to you. being chased on pokerstars now in game by there portraits of the pokerstars logo with strange symbols as names by even 3 a table just to play me, you know? Now we know already in Poker it happens allot to be dealt small cards with no chances of winning for a long time through to river even - but not everytime. So the 1st time I thought they noticed me I believe I was being chased in game pokerstars tournament tables by 1 player who kept going all-in and winning everytime even with small cards table after table chasing me and I noticed I was the only one who was playing him most, and suddenly this guy has over 100 counted all-in and keeps winning chasing me ever since I made it to 1st place which I kept for about 20 minutes in that tournament of over 8000 players and so I started counting the times he went all-in mostly preflop and it must have been over 200 all-in's and guess what, he won 1st place with spamming even more all-in's Only one other player noticed and thought he was stealing his money so he wouldn't play with him. And that's only 1 case out of all of them that are. So I tried the ZOOM tables, same strange pattern given to me, same strange players, but this happens only after a while of playing a few hands now. It's worse if I don't have my security up. I think It's different for every player given accordance to how they play with pokerstars, once they realize they can't get anymore cash out of someone or they think one to be easy a supposed "fishing donkey". But I thought you knew this already, and make your ways around it, I guess it's just different in some cases for some for pokerstars.net to be knowing we know they know we know retaliators against there pokerstars players. Don't you know?
12. no offence but to who? the ones that make these crazy calls always seem to pull it off lol and not just early in the game i see these crazy calls when deep in tourneys aswell its like they get board or something.
13. 1) PS helps to shortstacks. For example player with 20BB allins with T3, you call, board 3395T. You raise with AQ, shortstack calls with A2, board AAT92. Most the time like that.

2) Event though you play A-game sometimes you win periodically and sometimes you loose. Especially when you are close to take bonus. PS pays you rakeback but he takes it back.

3) If you are playing multitable, when you hit a set on a table you also hit on another table. When you dealt AA you also dealt on another table.
Edited By: COSPADE Jul 27th, 2016 at 06:20 PM
14. /facepalm

15. Online mtts, are no longer skill. There to many random players doing random things. Its complete chaos theory. Oh unless you play a million hands lol, then you ll know if your a profitable player. Its not rigged its just a bingo game. Try to just play for fun. Everyone who plays poker thinks they have to be a pro. Just play it cuz its fun

16.
##### Originally Posted by frick

Online mtts, are no longer skill. There to many random players doing random things. Its complete chaos theory. Oh unless you play a million hands lol, then you ll know if your a profitable player. Its not rigged its just a bingo game. Try to just play for fun. Everyone who plays poker thinks they have to be a pro. Just play it cuz its fun

17. Had aces cracked by kings twice within a few hands lost a lot of money, very suspect. Kings all in pre flop being called by a-x os happens a lot. Solution: Punish PokerStars. Play lower stakes keep lowering them and buy in lower amounts try other sights out too. Don't go back for a few months or a year even.
Edited By: Bobbyeh Aug 20th, 2016 at 01:23 PM
Reason: Sp
18. I have to go to saved web archive to retrieve this. After a PRO, winning WSOP event, tells everything like it is, they try really hard to take this article out of web. Taken him out of cardplayer, etc. I mean, the online sponsors sites fight to not be exposed.

Check out here on web archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20100730...-a-few-f-bombs)

He tells what he has faced, like the other mortals had. The thing is, the bullshit website probably made the mistake of not classifying his account as poker pro and let him as regular dud, so he gets what the regulars duds here in the world gets from these sites: losing and suckouts.

all this shit is rigged to the bones ...
19. Ah.." the cash out curse ". Proof... at last. Thanks, I love doom switch posts.
20. yeah sure look at Gus Hansen one of the best in the world and he was down 16.4M on fulltilt guess it was just varience lol no way in fkn hell is he that unlucky 100% ripoff.com lol
21. Yes, Gus Hansen is one of the best in the world. Kappa

He really isn't. He probably was good 90 years ago, but the games have changed so much since then. And by the way, in the recent years when he was playing online, he wasn't playing NLHE but rather 2-7 Single/Triple Draw games at which he sucks and was donking money away. Was railing those games a few time, and you could clearly see he has no clue what he was doing. -300k sessions for him were a norm.

22. Gus is still probably better than average in most games. His downfall is that he decided that playing against the best players in the world at the highest stakes as a good idea. Table selection can be anyone's downfall. You might be one of the top players in the world, but if everyone at the table is far better than you, you are a dog at the games. Too many player's egos won't let them see that, and Gus I feel was one of them.
23. After some questionable bad beats I cashed out and self excluded myself from playing. Did that just to send a message. Nice long time too.
24. Just to reiterate what I said in another thread:

Edited By: CheapTorque Sep 29th, 2016 at 06:15 PM

25. PS if you wanna get better come follow me on my community thread and watch my twitch stream.

And oh, I almost forgot, stop bitching.

26. Hello,

Of course online poker is rigged. Think about it, would you have your home office on the Isle of Man for the convenience? Wouldn't you want an extra million \$ from your investment in pokerstars? Do you think honest little saints get involved in poker in the first place?

I used to work as a house player, houseman, and dealer in illegal live poker clubs. The hardest thing to do is get players and get them hooked. But it's the only thing that matters. If you have a game everyone working makes money. If the players don't come, no game, you better apply at the gas station for a job.

So I would tell everyone I met about poker and how great it was. I would invite them to the game and teach them the basics. Some would lose thousands and others would become winners after a while. Some would smarten up and quit.

The only reason this forum exists and you have people saying it is or isn't rigged and thinking it's important is because we are addicts. Admit it. Save your money and play live!!! You may meet a nice girl/guy or at least you can waste your life around real people instead of 8 Eastern European bots.

Thanks

P
27.
##### Originally Posted by Pockets21

Hello,

Of course online poker is rigged. Think about it, would you have your home office on the Isle of Man for the convenience? Wouldn't you want an extra million \$ from your investment in pokerstars? Do you think honest little saints get involved in poker in the first place?

I used to work as a house player, houseman, and dealer in illegal live poker clubs. The hardest thing to do is get players and get them hooked. But it's the only thing that matters. If you have a game everyone working makes money. If the players don't come, no game, you better apply at the gas station for a job.

So I would tell everyone I met about poker and how great it was. I would invite them to the game and teach them the basics. Some would lose thousands and others would become winners after a while. Some would smarten up and quit.

The only reason this forum exists and you have people saying it is or isn't rigged and thinking it's important is because we are addicts. Admit it. Save your money and play live!!! You may meet a nice girl/guy or at least you can waste your life around real people instead of 8 Eastern European bots.

Thanks

P

So I'm an addict because I play for a living, constantly make money month to month and know that online is not rigged? Makes sense! Thanks enlightening me, going to apply for McDonalds....

28. Hey,

If you win month to month that's great!! Many people are addicted to things that they do well at. If you get on at McDonald's can you sneak me a free burger? I'm starving