1. Sorry, but I felt this deserved its own thread. Supermoves asked me to illustrate what exactly forced sleep deprivation is. I like the thread he posted and it's generating some good responses. Here's my take on this:

    Some of you have commented that sleep deprivation is not a torture method. Speaking from experience, I'm assuring you that you're completely wrong if you think this. Here are some observations:

    1) In the Army, we have a POW camp that is used for training American soldiers. It is located outside of Fort Bragg, NC. It was established after the Vietnam War by LTC Nick Rowe, a U.S. Special Forces officer, who escaped after suffering for over 5 years as a North Vietnamese POW. LTC Rowe firmly believed that with proper training, he could have escaped much sooner. Thus, the Army SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) school was established. At this school, the most common forms of torture are food and sleep deprivation. Attendees of this school include pilots, Navy SEALS, Army Green Berets, and other members of the Special Operations community. I know many people who have served as instructors at this course, and I am close friends with a few people who have gone through it.

    2) "Forced sleep deprivation" doesn't mean staying up all night to play internet poker in your underwear and eating bon bons. When we force people to stay awake, we don't nudge them and say "Hey Muhammad, would you mind opening your eyes for a while?" We FORCE them to stay awake, hence the term. As you go without sleep, your psychological state deteriorates. Some of the hardest men in the world, such as Navy SEALS, have been knowing to break down and cry like babies at SERE school. They completely lose their grip on reality. Many times, a "time out" has to be taken to reassure the captives that they aren't really in a third-world POW camp. Recordings of children crying, women being beaten, loud screeching, and other mindfucks are played on loop for hours and hours. If you even begin to doze, someone comes in and beats the shit out of you. Broken fingers, noses, and toes are common at SERE school. Remember, this is just training. This is NOT the real thing. Extreme methods are used to keep prisoners awake. Once a prisoner has not eaten or slept for days, he becomes very easy to break. You'd be amazed at how easy it is to gather information when a person's basic needs are taken away.

    3) Your body and mind needs nourishment. Sleep is one of the critical requirements for the human body to function. Forcefully taking this away is not natural. If you really don't think it's torture to not be able to sleep when your body needs it, ask yourself if you think starving a human being is torture. I'm guessing you think it is. There is no difference. Both are essential for the proper functioning of the human body and psyche.

    This really isn't an opinion at all, though you may think it is. Forced sleep deprivation is torture. I have personally taken enemy prisoners and have had to watch them for weeks on end. I have physically seen POW camps. I have forcefully had to disarm enemy soldiers and have had to provide care for men who just tried to kill my troops. I try not to get on my soapbox very often, but this is one of those things that I'm pretty sure I know more about than 99% of you on here. If you think I'm wrong and would like to refute this, I'd seriously love to hear it.

    Everything I wrote above is just the tip of the iceberg. I wish I could put into words just how harsh sleep deprivation is.
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  2. obv still mad he did not get to be in the naked iraqi pile

    I agree no sleep= bad times= torture
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  3. You're wrong... the eagles will beat the giants this weekend by 4pts.

    As far as above... I agree, sleep deprivation is a sick form of torture.
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  4. It may be harsh, but so is trying to kill our troops.
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  5. I guess my question would be, is it possible to starve and sleep deprive somebody to the point where they are completely non-responsive?

    Is there a certain level that you bring these people to? I would imagine that it is kind of hard to get information out of somebody who is unable to talk tor move.
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  6. I never said whether I agree or disagree with it. I just said that it's torture.
    Thread StarterAdd BigGunX to Rail
  7. The way you describe it makes effective. I am not for torturing anybody just for the fun of it. But if it is to extract info and save lives, have at it.
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  8. Stephen Soldz, Steven Reisner and Brad Olson wrote an article describing how these techniques mimic what was taught in the SERE-program: "the military's Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape program that trains US Special Operations Forces, aviators and others at high risk of capture on the battlefield to evade capture and to resist 'breaking' under torture, particularly through giving false confessions or collaborating with their captors."<SUP class=reference id=_ref-SERE_1>[2]</SUP> They cite the following examples:
    1. <LI>Prolonged isolation, <LI>Prolonged sleep deprivation, <LI>Sensory deprivation, <LI>Extremely painful "stress positions," <LI>Sensory bombardment (such as prolonged loud noise and/or bright lights), <LI>Forced nudity, <LI>Sexual humiliation, <LI>Cultural humiliation (such as disrespect to holy books), <LI>Being subjected to extreme cold that induces hypothermia, <LI>Exploitation of phobias, <LI>Simulation of the experience of drowning (waterboarding).

      H. Candace Gorman (a civil rights attorney in Chicago), Andrew Sullivan, and Lou Dubose claim that "enhanced interrogation" bears remarkable resemblance to techniques the Gestapo called "Verschärfte Vernehmung," which were war crimes.<SUP class=reference id=_ref-Candace_Gorman_0>[5]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-1>[6]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-Andrew_Sullivan_0>[7]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-Andrew_Sullivan_2_0>[8]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-Scott_Horton_0>[9]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-2>[10]</SUP>
      1. <LI>Simplest rations <LI>Hard bed <LI>Dark cell <LI>Deprivation of sleep <LI>Exhaustion exercises <LI>Blows with a stick </LI>
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  9. Very well written BGX. How about the truth serum? any experiences?
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  10. BGX's blood consists of 90% truth serum
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  11. I have never seen it used. Since everything I've seen has involved larger groups of prisoners, it really wasn't ever an option. I don't know how much it's used anymore. I'd imagine it may be used when questioning a single prisoner, but that's it.
    Thread StarterAdd BigGunX to Rail
  12. I agree with BigGunX, sleep deprivation and other types of sensory deprivation/overload techniques are very harsh. It is hard to get accurate information from EPW’s from physical torture techniques . One of the most effective way’s of obtaining information from Muslim EPW’s is to get them to change there religious views. Convince them that Allah is dead, or turned his back on them. Feed them a diet of Pork. Other very good methods are when the EPW’s are interrogated by someone they think is one of there own.

    Sodium Pentothal is not a good tool for getting accurate information from EPW’s, mainly because one of the side effects is delusion. There are other drugs that show more promise in obtaining accurate information from EPW’s like MDMA.
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  13. When yo tortured soldiers, did you fart in their faces? Your gas is probably the worst torture anyone could fathom.
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  14. "I try not to get on my soapbox very often,....."

    What about when you have to brush your teeth?

    Kidding. I agree with you about sleep deprivation being a highly effective form of torture. Also, I strongly believe that all fighter pilots should be put through a stress test in which they try to drive to Costco and back while my two kids sit in the back seat and scream their lungs out. I swear, I have never been in a more stressful situation.
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  15. loooool @ Wein and Shorty. So true. My gas is terrible.

    Shorty, seriously, that's the most stressful thing I know, too. I don't know what it is, but whe my daughter would scream her head off at 3-6 months, I wanted to kill myself.
    Thread StarterAdd BigGunX to Rail
  16. Seriously people, you don't know what we are talking about until it happens to you.

    You are conflicted by the feeling of sympathy for your crying child, the uncontrollable desire to choke said child into submission, the unavoidable fact that traffic will be travelling at a snail's pace, you just miss every green light, the annoying "car alarm" repetitiveness of the crying (it is more of a fast, high pitched wail). and of course the "waa, waa, gargle on my own saliva and almost vomit from choking on it, waa, waa, repeat" sound coming out of the kid.

    My only resolution has been to calmly try to hold an adult conversation with the child/children about issues they do not even comprehend. It usually gets my wife laughing (half because of the absurdity of the conversation / half nervous psychotic laughter) and that enables us to make it home in one piece.
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  17. BGX

    I heard that the information gained from torture is notoriously unreliable. Thoughts?
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  18. <TABLE cellPadding=2 border=0 celspacing="0"><TBODY><TR><TD>http://wizbangblog.com/content/2004/05/11/the-video.php

    see this link then decide...1 of dozens

    1 no
    4.do it if 1-3 fails and you have time
    5.if you know he doesnt know anything then why do it unless its to show 4 whats headed his way.
    6.if the behavior reguires it
    7.i assume you mean a computer that listens for a certain word pattern. no
    8.use 9 and there wont be a question 8
    9.refer to 8.
    10.the US has the responsiblity to do whatever is needed to protect their citizens.

    for the yes answer people

    1. would you hit someone just for pinchin your ladies booty?
    2.would you beat someone up if the stole your money?
    3.would you be willing to stab someone who broke into your home and was trying to take your child out the window?
    4.would you shoot to kill someone whos comming at you and your wife after breaking into your home?
    5.do the elected officials have a responsiblity to protect the US from attack here and abroad?
    6.should the US retaliate against nations or groups that purposely kill Americans here and abroad
    7.if another nations leader says he will order attack against the US and its allies should the US leaders believe him?
    8.do leaders of terroist states/groups have more respect for another leaders words or actions?
    9.would you want your US elected leaders to order preemptive or retaliatory attacks against states/groups who publicaly thretin the US?
    10.if the US disarms would terroist see this as a act of goodwill and do the same or view it as weakness and step up the efforts to kill as many US citizens as possible.

    these questions apply to all democratic nations
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff border=0></TABLE>
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