1. Position Name Stack

    UTG+2 32,735 (10.9 bb)
    MP1 12,475 (4.2 bb)
    MP2 26,153 (8.7 bb)
    MP3 83,309 (27.8 bb)
    CO Hero 99,471 (33.2 bb)
    BTN 17,532 (5.8 bb)
    SB 130,514 (43.5 bb)
    BB 185,139 (61.7 bb)

    Players: 8

    Blindss 1500/3000 antes 375

    Preflop: Hero is CO with T of spades T of clubs

    4 folds, Hero raises to 6,000, BTN raises to 17,157 and is all-in, SB folds, BB raises to 184,764 and is all-in,

    Hero ?????

    Down to 47 people and I am currently about 16th with 33bb.

    I only had 60 hands on the BB with 34/24 aggression 13%

    I felt that due to positions it would be a call because the BB could have been isolating wide BUT on the other hand I had seen him calling opens much more than raising & felt he could actually be stronger. Seemed a bit close for 33bb BUT taking this shot and winning gives me chip lead.

    Looking at pot odds I needed 42%, if I assume a 9% range to isolated from the BB, it is close.

    Anyone think 9% is too tight too loose?

    What would you have done?
    Edited By: samj123 Sep 28th, 2017 at 03:25 PM
    Reason: I cannot spell.
    5
    Add samj123 to Rail
  2. BB shoving 60bbs over btns 5 bb ship seems a bit strange to me and I would doubt he is doing this with JJ + unless he's pretty bad - for that reason I'd put him on a smaller pp than 1010 or some kind of broadway combo/ half decent Ax hand rather than the top of his range. I would take the spot and if he does have us crushed, oh well.
    Edited By: cage Sep 28th, 2017 at 05:10 PM
    6
    + 2
    raises
    Raise
    Add cage to Rail
  3. I like Cage's response and it does make a lot of sense. Although there is something to be said about taking lower variance lines and stretching out play when you have bigger edges post-flop against your opponent. While villain will show up with 66 or A9s at times, a large majority of the time you will be flipping. If you were at ~20 BB or less this is a snippity snap beat him in the pot call for me. But being as deep as you are, you can potentially slow climb to the final table a decent % of the time. Anyway, based on my range assumptions, here is the equity on what I believe would be a near break-even call.

    Range 1: TcTs
    Range 2: AA-22,AKs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs,T9s,AKo-A5o,KQo-KTo,QJo-QTo,JTo
    Range 3: AA-66,AKs-A9s,KQs,AKo-ATo

    Equity 1: 40.69% Win 1: 40.12% Tie 1: 1.25%
    Equity 2: 24.86% Win 2: 24.02% Tie 2: 1.79%
    Equity 3: 34.45% Win 3: 33.48% Tie 3: 2.04%
    Edited By: negrealanu Sep 28th, 2017 at 07:54 PM
     
    1
    + 1
    raise
    Raise
    Add negrealanu to Rail
  4.  
    Originally Posted by cage View Post

    BB shoving 60bbs over btns 5 bb ship seems a bit strange to me and I would doubt he is doing this with JJ + unless he's pretty bad - for that reason I'd put him on a smaller pp than 1010 or some kind of broadway combo/ half decent Ax hand rather than the top of his range. I would take the spot and if he does have us crushed, oh well.

    It seemed strange to me & I was sooo close to calling. I just had the nagging feeling that as he was loose passive he could actually have had something stronger & then showed some control (a first!) and folded.

    So I reluctanly folded and then cursed from here to hell when he had AKo and the shortie AQ and I had 44% vs those exact hands and actually would have scooped a monster stack....so I wanted to check whether it was a clear cut fold or call for next time.
    Edited By: samj123 Sep 28th, 2017 at 09:06 PM
    5
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd samj123 to Rail
  5.  
    Originally Posted by negrealanu View Post

    I like Cage's response and it does make a lot of sense. Although there is something to be said about taking lower variance lines and stretching out play when you have bigger edges post-flop against your opponent. While villain will show up with 66 or A9s at times, a large majority of the time you will be flipping. If you were at ~20 BB or less this is a snippity snap beat him in the pot call for me. But being as deep as you are, you can potentially slow climb to the final table a decent % of the time. Anyway, based on my range assumptions, here is the equity on what I believe would be a near break-even call.

    Range 1: TcTs
    Range 2: AA-22,AKs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs,T9s,AKo-A5o,KQo-KTo,QJo-QTo,JTo
    Range 3: AA-66,AKs-A9s,KQs,AKo-ATo

    Equity 1: 40.69% Win 1: 40.12% Tie 1: 1.25%
    Equity 2: 24.86% Win 2: 24.02% Tie 2: 1.79%
    Equity 3: 34.45% Win 3: 33.48% Tie 3: 2.04%

    Thanks for this effort, appreciate it.

    Just a little further question. We were already in the money & the next pay jumps are minor so would you discount ICM as being pretty much irrelevant or add a couple % to cover.
    5
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd samj123 to Rail
  6. I see that when we leave btn out of this calculation your 9% ahead instead of 6%. Can we do that,leave him out ? Never thought about it..not so into that wishy washy math stuff..boring lol who`s math ?
    I think these ranges look great ! bb could,in fackt, be wider, hes only shoving 33.2 bb effectively

    Sorry,i see it was AK,AQ they had. Folding wassent bad against a bigger stack,specially when you think you can get it in with a bigger edge later. I think thats wat you have to think about for yourself each time
    Edited By: vandenboss Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:06 PM
    Raise
    Add vandenboss to Rail
  7.  
    Originally Posted by vandenboss View Post


    Sorry,i see it was AK,AQ they had. Folding wassent bad against a bigger stack,specially when you think you can get it in with a bigger edge later. I think thats wat you have to think about for yourself each time

    The very next hand I did get it in with AKs vs a lag with Aj0 & busted, but that is just the way it goes!

    For anyone who is interested: Assuming BB range was 8.3% ICMIZER said 10´s were +EV 0.11 shove.

    Can anyone please explain to me what a margin of +EV 0.11 means? Still seems breakeven to me when AA was +EV 0.65. 99´s at +EV 0.01 is breakeven. But should I be taking any of these spots that are +EV and not breakeven?
    5
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd samj123 to Rail
  8. Theoretically yes take any clear edge in a vacuum. In reality the smaller the EV the less you should take it. In a tournament where you have a strong edge against the field you should forego smaller edges pre-flop. If you are in a very tough field you should take this all day because it may be the best stop you get, or at least one of the better ones. +.11 refers to the profitability in BB of the jam. The reason why this is so low even with AA is because you need to beat 2 opponents for a substantial amount of the pot. Based on their ranges and the fact that you unblock the maximum amount of over combos (AK, AQ, AJ, ...) there really isn't much edge to be gained here.
    Edited By: negrealanu Sep 29th, 2017 at 06:17 PM
     
    1
    + 1
    raise
    Raise
    Add negrealanu to Rail
  9. In this hand AK is kind of the top of BBs range, BTN can have lots of weaker pps, broadways, Ax etc. With BB being described as loose/passive however, I can see your dillema, still, pocket tens I consider to be a pretty strong hand in this situation, doubt I'd be folding and as you say, might be time to stack up or fuck off.
    6
    Raise
    Add cage to Rail
  10. Yes,sorry about the stupid qwestion. I'd been playing for 28 hours,all or nothing with me. I think that i accually meant that i wouldent be thinking about BTNs range twice at the table since he only had 5.8 bb to start with
    Edited By: vandenboss Sep 30th, 2017 at 08:15 AM
    Raise
    Add vandenboss to Rail
  11.  
    Originally Posted by cage View Post

    doubt I'd be folding and as you say, might be time to stack up or fuck off.

    I agree I would be calling off a bunch, but when we really examine this spot it is damn near break even. We are going to lose a bunch. So if that's the case from a chip stack perspective it better be damn worth it. We're in 16/47 in what I assume to be a normal blind structure. If we were in the bottom third of the field I would be much more likely to take it.
     
    1
    + 2
    raises
    Raise
    Add negrealanu to Rail
  12. Interesting negrealanu, maybe I don't think these spots through enough in reality, if calling off I would expect to be flipping most of the time against a loose/passives range but would expect to be doing better against the range of a stronger player. I admit I do sometimes have a problem playing a 30bb stack if I'm struggling to find decent steal spots, so maybe more patience is needed on my part.
    6
    + 1
    raise
    Raise
    Add cage to Rail
  13. I am calling here as well I don't think the big blind has us beat often enough to fold 1010
     
    Add kevmode to Rail