1. bump?

    i wanna answer cuz this extensive BR management guide has made me surprisingly aroused (is that weird?)
    Add tmac2424 to Rail
  2.  
    Originally Posted by MattieBoy131 View Post

    Rycky,

    Any possibility you could post that spreadsheet you made? I have one of my own, but not sure exactly how to incorporate Jen's post here into it. That would be wicked awesome to have a spreadsheet of this Jennifear gold :)

    I would be curious to see this as well. I made a spreadsheet to keep track of my records but it sucks.
    Raise
    Add louiemdj to Rail
  3. Jenn

    First off this is an awesome post - perhaps one of the best ever on p5s. I love the cash out part as I have always wondered how and when to cash out. I do have a question about cash outs in general that I did not see on there. I am primarily a satellite player so my payouts are obviously flatter. However, I play so many types and high volume I do quite well, and am rolled overall to play the majors with exception of 100r. I almost always keep the T$ instead of playing the tourneys, using them for smaller tournys or sngs. My question would be how do figure out cash out percentages for satellites taking into account the buyin and flat rate payout? Along with that if I satellite into a big tourny and decide to play do you recommend using the cash out formula based on the satellite or the big tourny? Again you rock and thx.

    Dogg
    Raise
    Add fpdog to Rail
  4.  
    Originally Posted by fpdog View Post

    Jenn

    First off this is an awesome post - perhaps one of the best ever on p5s. I love the cash out part as I have always wondered how and when to cash out. I do have a question about cash outs in general that I did not see on there. I am primarily a satellite player so my payouts are obviously flatter. However, I play so many types and high volume I do quite well, and am rolled overall to play the majors with exception of 100r. I almost always keep the T$ instead of playing the tourneys, using them for smaller tournys or sngs. My question would be how do figure out cash out percentages for satellites taking into account the buyin and flat rate payout? Along with that if I satellite into a big tourny and decide to play do you recommend using the cash out formula based on the satellite or the big tourny? Again you rock and thx.

    Dogg

    Thank you for your kind words :)

    Satellites are a funny animal because the % of the field that gets paid is always different. Here's the best quick answer that I can give you that will allow you to work these in:

    I would loosely use the "Rule of 2000".

    x= the % of the field that is getting paid.

    2000/x is the number of buyins you need.

    For a satty that pays 20% of the field, you would need 100 buyins. (2000/20)

    For a satty that pays 50% of the field, you would need 40 buyins. (2000/50)

    For a satty that only pays a few spots, like a $20 satty to a $1000 target tournament, you would need many more buyins to manage the variance appropriately.

    As far as cashouts go for these, you would want to cash out appropriately based on the risk:

    If the satty pays:

    50% of the field, cash out 2%
    33% of the field, cash out 3%
    20% of the field, cash out 5%
    10% of the field, cash out 8%
    5% of the field or less, cash out 10%
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  5. Jen, as you know, you are one of my closest on-line friends and I always appreciate your advice (cept for the bashing of my boys!!). But where in this plan does it state what buy-ins of you guess it...roshambo, you can play on a small roll? Assuming someone is up against you, do they even need a bankroll?
    Raise
    Add moman1965 to Rail
  6. wow you are quick - thx for info - im assuming same structure regardless off mtt or sng or at best guess the avg payouts to fit into your formula
    Add fpdog to Rail
  7.  
    Originally Posted by moman1965 View Post

    Jen, as you know, you are one of my closest on-line friends and I always appreciate your advice (cept for the bashing of my boys!!). But where in this plan does it state what buy-ins of you guess it...roshambo, you can play on a small roll? Assuming someone is up against you, do they even need a bankroll?

    Use HU guidelines for roshambo. Be sure you are playing in heads up games with an ROI of greater than 4% to make this system work for you.
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  8.  
    Originally Posted by fpdog View Post

    wow you are quick - thx for info - im assuming same structure regardless off mtt or sng or at best guess the avg payouts to fit into your formula

    You got it!
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  9. i didnt look at all the categories, but for sng's atleast, this seems fairly inaccurate. for 75 dollar sngs's your advocating 4875, which is still not enough especially with the tough games these days...sure you also say your ROI needs to be 4% or better to make this system work, but even at 5-6% you'll easily hit a 100 BI downswing over say 25-30,000 sngs...of course this is a big sample that most people will never see, but to use these guidelines as a professional is wrong imo
     2
    Raise
    Add z06fanatic to Rail
  10.  
    Originally Posted by tmac2424 View Post

    bump?

    i wanna answer cuz this extensive BR management guide has made me surprisingly aroused (is that weird?)

    sorta....this is awesome jennifear....great great stuff
    Raise
    Add 99NvrLosez to Rail
  11. Jenn, I have a question regarding satellite shootouts...

    say its a 10.70 + 1 double shootout that pays top three

    what should my bank roll be at to play these

    is the pay % looked at the same way since i have to win a STT first then place in a top % at the next table

    thanks!
    Raise
    Add murondubs to Rail
  12. awesome post - bad for online poker (=my hourly rate) though
     
    Add relderretep to Rail
  13.  
    Originally Posted by z06fanatic View Post

    i didnt look at all the categories, but for sng's atleast, this seems fairly inaccurate. for 75 dollar sngs's your advocating 4875, which is still not enough especially with the tough games these days...sure you also say your ROI needs to be 4% or better to make this system work, but even at 5-6% you'll easily hit a 100 BI downswing over say 25-30,000 sngs...of course this is a big sample that most people will never see, but to use these guidelines as a professional is wrong imo

    The 4% ROI + is for HU.

    You would be looking at attaining 6% ROI for $75 SNGs to cash out 3%. I mentioned in my OP that with STTs, the system breaks down at the higher buyin SNGs where you can only expect to maintain a small +ROI. That's why I added this in the clarifications:

    - If you are a high buyin player, you may be playing a SNG where you are only expected to attain a very small ROI. In that case, divide your expected long-term ROI by 2 and cash out that much per game. For instance, if you are a $320 STT player who expects to make 2% ROI, cash out 1% ($3.30) per game played. That sounds small, but most of your income is coming from <a href='http://rakeback.pocketfives.com' target='blank'>rakeback</A>/bonuses anyway.

    Even if you experience heavy variance, which, as you noted, you will, the system will work for you. $4875 is the minimum, and if you fall to $4874.99, you'll need to drop. Over time, if you are a big enough winner to make more at $75s than $60s, you'll end up playing the $75s. If not, you'll end up playing the $60s.
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  14.  
    Originally Posted by murondubs View Post

    Jenn, I have a question regarding satellite shootouts...

    say its a 10.70 + 1 double shootout that pays top three

    what should my bank roll be at to play these

    is the pay % looked at the same way since i have to win a STT first then place in a top % at the next table

    thanks!

    Use the rule of 2000 as stated in the OP. By the rules, in a full double shootout satty that pays 10% of the field, you'll need 200 buyins, which is $2340.
    (2000/10 = 200)

    In my opinion, 150 buyins for these are plenty. $1755.
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  15. jen, say you are a sng and mtt player. for mtts you have the $7800 roll to play $39 mtts does this mean you should also be playing $109 stts?
    Add poisoneye1986 to Rail
  16. nice post
     
    Add bassmaster to Rail
  17. How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p
    Add clubkiller to Rail
  18.  
    Originally Posted by clubkiller View Post

    How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p

    For any of the tourneys/SNGs it wouldn't change, for cash games multi-tabling would matter. I don't currently play cash but IIRC if you needed 25 BIs to play 1/2 6-max NL at a full buy-in (which is $200?), then to play one table you'd need $5000, two tables $10000, etc.

    Hopefully Jen will confirm my thinking here.
    Raise
    Add Rycky4Golf to Rail
  19. By the way, a number of people have asked me to post my spreadsheet, thing is I have no idea how to go about it. Any help for an interwebs noob like me out there? I'm guessing I'll need to use some sort of document holding site and then posting a link to it, if so any suggestions?
    Raise
    Add Rycky4Golf to Rail
  20.  
    Originally Posted by Rycky4Golf View Post

     
    Originally Posted by clubkiller View Post

    How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p

    For any of the tourneys/SNGs it wouldn't change, for cash games multi-tabling would matter. I don't currently play cash but IIRC if you needed 25 BIs to play 1/2 6-max NL at a full buy-in (which is $200?), then to play one table you'd need $5000, two tables $10000, etc.

    Hopefully Jen will confirm my thinking here.

    that would definetly seem like a lot. In this case you would need $27,000 to 24 table $25 nl,hmm.

    Fwiw, I might be a little underrolled if this were the case lol;p
    Raise
    Add clubkiller to Rail
  21. bump
    Add clubkiller to Rail
  22.  
    Originally Posted by poisoneye1986 View Post

    jen, say you are a sng and mtt player. for mtts you have the $7800 roll to play $39 mtts does this mean you should also be playing $109 stts?

    It means you are rolled to do so. Whether you do or not depends on if you feel you are profitable in them. Never play any game where you don't feel you have an edge.
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  23.  
    Originally Posted by clubkiller View Post

    How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p

    The number of tables you play will not matter if you are using this program. It works equally well for 1 or 50-tablers. The only trick is that you have to have the minimum bankroll to buy in.

    Example: You want to multitable $6.50 SNGs ($422 bankroll required). You would have to have $422 in your account at the time that you register for the last one.

    Clarification: This system forces you to cash out 3% for STTs and 4% for 18-mans. Therefore, long-term, you'll need to maintain 3-4% just to stay at your current stakes. If you don't acheive that, you'll need to move down at some point (but that is okay because you'll make more money at the next lowest level). If you acheive better than that, you'll have the opportunity to move up somewhat quickly if you are acheiving 10-15% ROI. You'll have the chance to move up after a very large sample size at 5-6% ROI. This keeps you playing where you make the most money, allows you to ride hot streaks (when you are playing your best) and forces you to move down when you aren't winning (and likely not playing your best).

    Therefore, for cash, you would need 68 total buyins to 24-table NLH cash, because you would have 45 buyins remaining in your roll at the time you bought into the last game. If I were in your shoes, I'd use 75-80 buyins instead.

    From my post on how to apply this to cash games:

    For the bankroll management part:

    - For limit games, you need 550 big bets
    - For no-limit games, you need 45 buyins.
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  24. great post some good food for thought about the cashing out aspect of this
    Add meierp to Rail
  25. just curious on your reasoning behind 200 buy ins for bigger MTT's....i think i am very conservative, and I use 100 buy ins. I do sprinkle in a lot of guaranteed money makers to lower variance (ie $26's on FTP), but certainly think an $11,000 for $50 tourneys is way too high....please explain why you disagree :o)
     
    Raise
    Add shane3769 to Rail
  26.  
    Originally Posted by shane3769 View Post

    just curious on your reasoning behind 200 buy ins for bigger MTT's....i think i am very conservative, and I use 100 buy ins. I do sprinkle in a lot of guaranteed money makers to lower variance (ie $26's on FTP), but certainly think an $11,000 for $50 tourneys is way too high....please explain why you disagree :o)

    The system is designed to ensure that the % of your bankroll at risk is always small. It's a very conservative system by design. I see nothing wrong with using 100 buyins for MTTs so long as you understand that there is some risk of ruin. The system is designed to be able to play forever with virtually no chance of going broke.

    Fox explains how 100 buyins is a "protected" bankroll in his classic article, whereas he recommended 200 buyins for a pro.

    Basic Bankroll Management, by Fox

    Cliff notes: I'm a bankroll nit.
    Raise
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  27.  
    Originally Posted by Jennifear View Post

     
    Originally Posted by clubkiller View Post

    How do you figure out bankroll needed for someone who multi tables. For example someone that 24 tables cash or 9-18 tables 18man tournies, which I do;p

    The number of tables you play will not matter if you are using this program. It works equally well for 1 or 50-tablers. The only trick is that you have to have the minimum bankroll to buy in.

    Example: You want to multitable $6.50 SNGs ($422 bankroll required). You would have to have $422 in your account at the time that you register for the last one.

    Clarification: This system forces you to cash out 3% for STTs and 4% for 18-mans. Therefore, long-term, you'll need to maintain 3-4% just to stay at your current stakes. If you don't acheive that, you'll need to move down at some point (but that is okay because you'll make more money at the next lowest level). If you acheive better than that, you'll have the opportunity to move up somewhat quickly if you are acheiving 10-15% ROI. You'll have the chance to move up after a very large sample size at 5-6% ROI. This keeps you playing where you make the most money, allows you to ride hot streaks (when you are playing your best) and forces you to move down when you aren't winning (and likely not playing your best).

    Therefore, for cash, you would need 68 total buyins to 24-table NLH cash, because you would have 45 buyins remaining in your roll at the time you bought into the last game. If I were in your shoes, I'd use 75-80 buyins instead.

    From my post on how to apply this to cash games:

    For the bankroll management part:

    - For limit games, you need 550 big bets
    - For no-limit games, you need 45 buyins.

    Ty Jenn this is excactly what I was looking for.
    Raise
    Add clubkiller to Rail
  28. Doug Turner (stang_racin) just sent this background along to me and I thought I'd share it cause it looks great!
    Attached Images
    Thread StarterAdd Jennifear to Rail
  29. the picture isint very clear

    on my computer anyways
    Edited By: chrisp200 Nov 6th, 2010 at 01:59 AM
     
    Add chrisp200 to Rail
  30. I have some better versions I just created, resized for both normal and widescreen versions. Working on getting them uploaded now :) Sorry the first one didn't turn up so clear on your monitor :(
    Edited By: x_Driven_x Nov 6th, 2010 at 03:36 AM
    Add x_Driven_x to Rail
Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 41 2 3 4

Similar Threads