1. I really agree when people say that the players in a 5-10NL game live, are equal to the skill level of players in a $0.50-$1.00NL game online or maybe a 1-2NL game online. I also agree that the average online player had improved at a much faster rate than the average live player. This makes sense as the average online player gets to see many more hands and is more likely to use tools like books, training websites and poker forums to improve their games.
    I only started playing online about a year ago, but I have read that back in 2002 or around then, that the online games were softer than the live games and that 1-2NL online was softer than a 1-2NL game live. Do you guys agree with this? If so, in what year do you think that the online games became more difficult than the live games?
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  2. It all started going downhill the day Potripper was born.
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  3. I've known this for a while.

    Take an average 3/6 limit player online and the average 3/6 limit play live and it's not even close. Like men amongst boys.
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  4. Maybe 2004 or so. First, in live play NL was not the thing it was now until the introduction of capped games. Most live play was limit. The worst players play the lowest limits, so live that meant 3/6 or 2/4 or even 5/10 if that was the lowest limit spread. Online that meant the same donks were all full ring .50/$1 limit. Then with the Moneymaker Boom, all the fish online went to NL and quickly got stacked and busted out. Live limit was still strong, so they couldn't lose it all in one badly played hand, so they didn't realize how bad they sucked. Thus the "online is rigged" rumors started floating around with the bad live players.

    Secondly, to play online you have to download software, use a credit card to deposit, wait for your withdrawl, and your real results are a mouse click away when you check your account balance to see how you are really doing. It takes effort to play. Live, anyone at a casino (after having hit big at the slots or craps) can just wander in and try their luck. They can cash out immediately, forget how much they bought in for, and fool themselves with all the lies degen losers tell themselves. No credit card statements to prove themselves wrong. They might have a lucky session, convince themselves they are winners, and not be proven wrong until the next trip or two. Online, the luck is quickly ground down because of the speed of the play and the constant availability once you overcome the initial hurdles.

    Then the advent of software aids like poker tracker and HUD displays and the expanding ability to multi-table gave the better players a larger edge over others online and the greater chances are the fish would be at table with a multi-tabling HUD poker tracker shark. Live, the shark can only be at one table, and chances are it is at a higher limit. The fish can play among themselves at the lower limits pushing their chips back and forth, while online a multitabling shark can be sucking the fish chips down at several tables.

    So now online you have the better players since the really bad players have gotten tired of constantly reloading and it is even more difficult to deposit, meaning you really have to want to play that much more. Live, the donks are still dropping in the casino and trying out that neat all-in game they see on TV, at live limits that are still 4x to 10x larger than what they could play online, just because they wander by the poker room on the way to the slots.

    Seriously, in live play you might have 1 or even 2 players that are good, 1 that has some basic skills, and the rest of the table are totally clueless. You won't find line ups like that online. I have played live with people who have bought in $300 a crack, burned thru it before a complete orbit was out, gone thru $5000 in several hours, and still not known if a flush beats a straight. I wish I had $1 every time someone sat down and asked how the blinds work, or what a kicker is. Online, that basic knowledge is learned quickly at .05/.10 not at $10/$20.

    If someone is used to live throwing away a couple of grand at craps or blackjack, or has pumped $10,000 thru a slot machine, stupidly throwing away a couple $100s at poker really doesn't register in their brain. This is also why some of the softest games are at sites connected to a sports book. A $1000 a game sports bettor has no problem calling a $50 dollar bet to chase a gut shot.

    Online someone is much more likely to read a forum and learn the game, or even more likely to read a book, even if they aren't using software aids or training sites. Live, the same old nits are making the same mistakes they have for the past 20 years, and aren't about to learn anything new. And as long as they play with the majority of live bad players like themselves, it really doesn't matter.
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  5. US Legislation did NOT help.
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  6. 1-2 live has been softer than 1-2 online since the beginning of time. *

    *I've only been playing since 2002, and even at that time there was a HUGE differential between the two, though not as big as there is now.
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  7. Ted, I really don't like you at all.

    Having said that, this was an outstanding and insightful post.
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  8. Live 5/10 is a bit better than 1/2 online but not as good as 2/4 online. Thats what I see. Plus, something has to be said about the added tells and bigger raises.
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  9. i think it happened *exactly* at the moment of the us legislation getting passed.

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