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bonflizubi

Took a BIG shot- came so close I wanna puke

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Took a HUGE shot tonight and bought into the BOdog 6max BPO event for $300+25. With maybe one exception I've never bought in for over $100 and this was totally not BR smart I know but I had a feeling.

This field was loaded too, every table just about had at least 2 stud players. Daisy, Maven, Troy, Boondock, and others.

That said, The tourney paid 18 of $160 and I find myself sitting at just below the average stack of 80k with 10 players left. (OK HUGE pat on own back for getting this far........)

Payouts were flat for 10-18 at $720 but start jumping at 9 left for ~$1k up to $18k for first. This is the closest I've ever come to a real big score (ie 5 figs)

And then this hand below comes up. I was going to post it as a *what do you do in this spot* hand, but even as I played it my gut told me the answer.

There had been lots of 3bets over raises, and people almost always were folding them - that was the common dynamic. I was no more active than anyone else. And then in the hand below when I see the 4th bet shove I know I am crushed.

I even knew in my gut that I should fold. I'd have 15BB left and there were 2 stacks shorter than me. THen here is the weird thing. I'm thinking I am about to fold and I notice some douche on the rail type *you can't fold that*. Which of course makes me want to check the pot odds real fast but there's no time bank available.

At quick glance they look big enough, but clearly I brain farted. They are only good against 2 overs. And in teh 5 seconds I had to decide I cramped and thought I was 30% vs an overpair....which would be dead on the number, rather than the 20% that you are against an overpair.

Aargh. Obv I lots the hand, I'll say later what kind of hand the shover had.

Anyway, half rant, half looking to see if I am the only idiot that calls here. Remember, this is the first 4-bet by a 3rd player I haver seen in maybe 2 hours.

Thoughts, castigations, whatever welcomed. Does everyone else fold here?

Thanks,

Bon

--------------------------------------------------

Game Type Hold'Em
Play Mode Real
Table Name BPO II Event #4 (6-Handed) $60K Guaranteed
Structure NL
zubs1aa 1 72,690
Redone212 2 71,081
DeRose84 3 76,769
boondock11 5 136,828
Coco Lugo 6 44,325
Redone212 Ante 300
DeRose84 Ante 300
boondock11 Ante 300
Coco Lugo Ante 300
zubs1aa Ante 300
DeRose84 Ante/Small blind 1,500
boondock11 Big blind/Bring in 3,000
zubs1aa 7d 7h
Coco Lugo Raise

7,200

zubs1aa

Raise

24,600
Redone212 Fold
DeRose84 Fold
boondock11 All-in 133,528
Coco Lugo Fold

ZUBS1AA ???????????????

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You were playing well when I was at the table. Its obviously a very strong play by boondock and 77 doesn't play well here. I think he has an overpair here 80% of the time here, its just the way Bodog is (I don't know Boondock so if he is a good reg, that % goes down) . I would fold and leave myself with the 48K. I also think if you are 3 betting it is too big, I would make it 17-18K since it accomplishes the same thing vs the short stack (once you 3 bet the SS you have to get it in vs him).

Just my opinion but since i suck I don't know if u want to take it.

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i have never seen this type of HH before - but why are you re raising an UTG player with 77?

Once you do that you are playing for your whole stack. He is unlikely to be going away with 44k.

Id fold pre with mid PP to an UTG raise.

As for the shove behind - hope he has AK and call?

Or fold with 10BB's and play short stack ninja! I opt for the ninja but wouldnt have got into ur situation.

UL GG

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There is no way you can call off the rest of your chips here with 77, especially given the fact that this was the first time you've seen the 4 bet. Speaking generally, the 4 bet at this stage in the game is usually the goods, and when its not, its a really sick player who is not afraid to put all his chips in...

Given the fact that you probably were playing really tight and had not 3 bet much, the people at the table have to give your 3 bet some credit..the fact that he still came over the top says that he at worst is sitting on AK...and by some miracle, maybe AQ..but most likely is holding JJ+ and has your pair crushed..

Fold..save your chips and pick a better spot...this will appear to be you 3 betting light, so hopefully you will get paid off a lil later on with a stronger hand when you 3 bet it again..

JD

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You were playing well when I was at the table. Its obviously a very strong play by boondock and 77 doesn't play well here. I think he has an overpair here 80% of the time here, its just the way Bodog is (I don't know Boondock so if he is a good reg, that % goes down) . I would fold and leave myself with the 48K. I also think your 3 bet size is too big here, I would make it 17-18K since it accomplishes the same thing vs the short stack (once you 3 bet the SS you have to get it in vs him).

Just my opinion but since i suck I don't know if u want to take it.

Thanks man. Yeah like you suck ;)

I was definitely going to get it in with the shortie regardless. You're right about the 3bet tho. If I'd only made it 17-18 it would have sent the same message and left me 56k rather than 48k behind - which would have made for a much easier decision to fold to the 4bet.. (Curse of the bet pot button.......)

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This hand has such an easy answer. Fold pre. Everything else sucks.

Appreciate the input, but I don't see how it's foldable pre here given the table dynamics.

We're six-handed and the raiser has folded to every 3bet made against him that I'd seen.

Almost everyone has folded to a 3bet at the table. People are also raising and folding oddly as we are sitting on a big payout bubble for quite a while. In fact, a limp or call got people much more antsy in the play than a raise. I think a call in position on him wouldn't have been crazy. I don't recall too many 3 way hands at all.

DOn't know if that helps explain the situation any better.

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You have to fold here zubs....I even typed "he has to muck" to boon on aim....even though u had good odds, boon isn't 4betting you lite at this stage of the tournament. Additionally, 77 doesn't play well in this spot anyways.

GG though sir....

I woulda won the hand if it hadnt been for your typing HOLLLLLLDDDDDDDDD in the chat box ;)

Yeah, shoulda followed gut and folded. Still can't believe that i was about too when I noticed the railer who said to no one in particular *he can't fold here* and that made me reconsider. Arf. Arf. Blech.

FWIW if no-one 4- bet shoves on me, does it matter whether 77 plays well or not? Isn't the important thing the way that original raiser is going to react to it? Granted it is his first raise I'd seen from early position, but he'd laid down to everyones 3-bets...

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in terms of your 3 bet..it really doesn't matter what you are holding..if the guy before you was raising a lot, you could be 3 betting with any two...

but you werent..you acutally had a mid pair.. and yes, you are mostly playing the guy raising..

which is why when you get 4 bet, alarms have to go off everywhere screaming for you to fold here.

I'm not sure a fold pre is the way to go as this is only a 6 max table and the guy has been opening a lot...i like a smaller reraise and then a fold to a 4 bet if you decide to play the hand...and if the table wasn't too crazy, maybe a fold pre..but i don't think you can decide that automatically..table dynamics play a big role.

JD

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Zubs,

You played great bro. That was def a tough spot and not a fun one to be in. What wicane said earlier is exactly what you need to do if you were to re-pop with 77 there, so no need to explain further on that. Also I just wanted to say (which there is no way of you knowing really) is I was respecting ur bets a lot. There were a few times where I had hands that I usually would have 3 betted from the blinds with but didn't. Your table image was excellent. In the future I would ignore the chat as much as possible, even though its extremly hard, if some one says u gota call and you don't that doesn't mean a thing (unless u are getting sick odds) =). (also when people in the chat box say things like that it usually means they don't play much and just stoped by to see some action and wanted to see AIP hands, I think the same guy made a similar comment earlier)

Also, like wicane said, your stack was fine and could have grinded out a little further. It's tournament poker so as long as you have enuff chips to push and it isn't an insta call for the BB b/c of odds you will be fine and can give your self a chance. Look at this from a positive angle and think of it as a lesson learned, if will be +++EV for the future if you do. Hope this helps, again you played great and someday it will all click and u'll take down a big score. GL at the tables!!

Cheers.

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whats the point of 3bet folding here with 77? I prefer open folding if your going to 3bet fold seriously because if ur plan is to 3bet fold then do it in a spot that you think it will work a higher % of the time aka not vs an utg raise. Since ur planning on folding it your hand makes no difference so the fact that you have 77 here is a non issue. I just think 3betting here with 77 with intentions of folding is horrible. I agree with the open folding idea. That or you could flat and make it look like AA/KK and win the pot in position postflop. edit: i misread the hand i apologize i thought boondocks opened utg and then 4bet you. Its kinda close but i think you do need to 3bet pre here and call the shortstacks shove but fold to the big stack. The best thing you can do is what wicane said and make it as small as possible since your intentions should be your folding to a shove from the big stack. Disregard everything above the edit.

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yah...i guess "table" isn't the right word for online play...what'd you flip would be better.

nh--you TID?

Unfortunatly no, I made some bad plays after that hand and then I got reall lucky when I think like 5 people were knocked out with in maybe 5 hands (something like that). I was shorty and next thing I knew we were 3 handed. Gota love MTT's.

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Boondock has JJ+ AK 95% of the time, so under the circumstances you have to fold. Your tournament life is more important than "pot odds."

I think folding preflop is the best play because more than likely you aren't geting the utg raiser to fold with that stack, but it is bodog......

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Thanks Boon -

I'll definitely take that as a compliment my image- nice to know :)

Probably a compliment to you Boon that I called there. Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew it was a tough table to outplay. I know I outplayed a few hands but especialy whenever there was a flop that table was tough. Subconscious prayer for the hail mary possibly....?

-On the chat thing- I normally don't even notice. That bugs me, but lesson learned there - don't resize that damn window just because Bodog lets ya..... (I think it was Bt24 or something gotta look up that tool.)

-And I've got to agree with everyone that I could totally live at 15 BB in that format. 5 handed as we were, it's gotta be even tougher to call a shove as the likelihood of big hands is that much smaller, and the table was pretty tight as we got close to 9 players and that pay bubble.

-Also tru about the odds- they weren't even close to what I needed anyway. And to hell with them when you know you are dominated and they aren't totally in your favor.

-Def. a ++EV lesson here. One I'd partially learned when I played the Bodog 250k a few months ago, which was my one other last minute *I'll buy in and take a shot* effort. I made it all the way to ~81/ 800+ and into the money and was Above average stack.

Interestingly I went out much the same way. Aron Hacker raised UTG, I re-popped (too large a re-pop) and one of the Jesters shoves me from the BB. In that case I had so little behind that I did have to take the odds with AJ. Hacker folds, Jesters flips up...... KK. I didn't hit.

Lessons for me and whoever might read this and need the same lesson

1) Size my 3-bets smaller.

2) Don't call the 4-bet for the tourney without a monster (unless it's maven I suppose lol)

3) Trust your gut. (Doesn't somebody famous say go with gut instinct #1 always?) Gut said fold, finger clicked call.)

4) If you are gonna cash on Bodog- make it 5 figures miniumum so yo umight get leverage gettin the money out ;)

Zubs,

You played great bro. That was def a tough spot and not a fun one to be in. What wicane said earlier is exactly what you need to do if you were to re-pop with 77 there, so no need to explain further on that. Also I just wanted to say (which there is no way of you knowing really) is I was respecting ur bets a lot. There were a few times where I had hands that I usually would have 3 betted from the blinds with but didn't. Your table image was excellent. In the future I would ignore the chat as much as possible, even though its extremly hard, if some one says u gota call and you don't that doesn't mean a thing (unless u are getting sick odds) =). (also when people in the chat box say things like that it usually means they don't play much and just stoped by to see some action and wanted to see AIP hands, I think the same guy made a similar comment earlier)

Also, like wicane said, your stack was fine and could have grinded out a little further. It's tournament poker so as long as you have enuff chips to push and it isn't an insta call for the BB b/c of odds you will be fine and can give your self a chance. Look at this from a positive angle and think of it as a lesson learned, if will be +++EV for the future if you do. Hope this helps, again you played great and someday it will all click and u'll take down a big score. GL at the tables!!

Cheers.

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you have to fold this, cut your losses on the hand and get it all in in a better spot.

23o vs Ax is a better allin than 77 vs 88+. in essense you're praying for a 50/50 and its a blind guess whether he has AK/AQ/AJ(maybe) or one of the more numerous pocket pairs that has you crushed.

It looks like half the thread didn't read the chip stacks...you cannot straight fold here without attacking the shortstack, i think thats absolutely stupid. The reraise definitely was a little too much, I would have bet something like 18.5k. you need to make it a habit to leave yourself a plan B incase attacking the shortstack goes wrong. If you want to get it all in vs him you wouldn't shove cause that makes you vulnerable to someone waking up behind you and its the same thing with raising a little too much.

Fold, admit you fucked up the raise a little bit, but also that its unfortunate/out of your hands someone woke up with a hand after you. Most importantly, Do not make this hand your last hurrah after battling so much to get this deep. Give yourself a chance to get lucky and work some shortstack ninja magic.

EDIT: if you're playing to win, you cannot, absolutely not, open fold to the shortstack utg raise. throw "utg" out the window when you're five handed on the final table bubble. folding here gives way too much respect. I think he's raising any pair, A5+ (at least) , and a lot of high broadway hands.

Here is a very tight range cause I know I'm raising more hands than this in that position since no one is coming over the top without a hand they expect to be called and hold up against yours.

equity win tie pots won pots tied

Hand 0: 45.879% 44.90% 00.98% 19162590 419675.00 { 22+, A5s+, KJs+, A5o+, KJo+ }

Hand 1: 54.121% 53.14% 00.98% 22680558 419678.50 { 77 }

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I don't think I'de call the UTG raise.

But from your point of view, alot of my friends like to do min raises form under the gun to pump the blinds up. I think you either needed to fold or go all the way with the hand preflop. When you raise, you need to be willing to make a stand to a 4 bet. losing 30% of your stack is not worth a good lay down.

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