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Lumberjack20

Prop Bet Arbitration Needed!

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I am currently involved in a prop bet involving very technical poker terminology. The area we are "arguing" over involves 2 players having flushes. One player having an Ace high flush, and another player having a straight flush.

Example:

Board Reads as follows:

7d 8d 9d 10d 2c

Player 1 Hole Cards:

Ad 6c

Player 2 Hole Cards:

Jd Qs

Our arguement, turn prop bet involves WHO HAS THE NUT FLUSH?

ANY AND ALL FEEDBACK IS GREATLY APPRECIATED!! :D

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I personally disagree with this interpretation; if the board was 2d5d7d, Ad8d and AdKd would both be the nut flush. Sort of like if the board has 888XX, A8 and 28 are both the nuts. In terms of the OP, obv it depends on whether you consider a straight flush a flush. I don't know the answer to that. I am leaning towards Ad being the nut flush and Jd being the nuts, i.e. the straight flush.

WTF??? How many Ad's and 8's are in your deck?

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Player 1 has the Nut Flush. The Ad makes the nut flush. Jd makes a str8 flush, this is different than the Nut Flush.

Arguments can be made for how we all interpret the term "Nut", but lets be honest...OP asked who has the "NUT FLUSH". It has to be Ad.

IMO

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WTF??? How many Ad's and 8's are in your deck?

You misunderstood what I was saying, maybe I explained it poorly. Obv on a 888XX board there is only one 8 left in the deck, but if someone turns over A8 or 28, those hands are both the nuts, even though, in theory, quads with an ace kicker is stronger than quads with no kicker.

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Ad is nut flush. Jd does not have a flush, he has a straight flush.

This...

A flush and a straight flush are two separate categories.

Player 1 with the A has the nut-FLUSH.

Player 2 with the Jd has the nut-STRAIGHT FLUSH and as already pointed out the winning hand.

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You misunderstood what I was saying, maybe I explained it poorly. Obv on a 888XX board there is only one 8 left in the deck, but if someone turns over A8 or 28, those hands are both the nuts, even though, in theory, quads with an ace kicker is stronger than quads with no kicker.

sry i knew what u were gettin at...just forgot the el oh el at the end of my post:)

fwiw i completely agree

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A flush, as defined by the dictionary:A hand in which all the cards are of the same suit but not in numerical sequence, ranked above a straight and below a full house in poker.

A straight flush is not a flush.

A jack high straight flush is not a nut flush because it is not a flush.

If you have kq preflop, you have the nut king high, but not the nuts.

If you have tt on a t 9 9 7 2 board you have the nut full house, but not the nuts.

If you have Ad5d on on Kd9d7d 7s Qs, you have the nut flush, but not the nuts.

I withdraw my earlier answer and vote for this.

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aearnest23,

Thank you for the quick response... I am aware that only one hole card is needed in Texas Hold Em.

My question is this:

Which player has the NUT FLUSH??

Haven't read the entire thread, so this was probably already mentioned, but since neither of you guys have QdJd, neither of you have the nut flush. The term "nut flush" refers to the best possible flush, given a particular board. The "nut" part of the term refers to the best possible hand; in this instance, the best possible hand, given the board is QdJd. Therefore, the nut flush would be QdJd, which neither of you guys have. Therefore, neither of you guys can win a prop bet consisting of which of these two hands is the "nut flush."

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Tangent...

I think we all agree (at least I sure hope we all agree) that QJdd is the absolute nuts on this board. What then is the term for the hand in the example, JdQs, where for all intents and purposes the player is holding an unbeatable hand since he is holding the Jd which acts as a blocker to the absolute nuts? Do we call it the "virtual" nuts? The "practical" nuts? The "de facto" nuts?

Bored minds want to know.

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Tangent...

I think we all agree (at least I sure hope we all agree) that QJdd is the absolute nuts on this board. What then is the term for the hand in the example, JdQs, where for all intents and purposes the player is holding an unbeatable hand since he is holding the Jd which acts as a blocker to the absolute nuts? Do we call it the "virtual" nuts? The "practical" nuts? The "de facto" nuts?

Bored minds want to know.

In that situation, if you are looking at the Jd, you have the nuts. Your hand cannot be beaten by any possible combination of cards.

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Ace high flush is the nut flush. The Jd is a flush AND its a straight flush, different hands. The Ad is the BEST POSSIBLE FLUSH.

Also, people still say nut flush even if the board is paired and the nut flush isn't the nuts.

THe nut flush = the best possible flush, which is ace high.

The Jd is the 4th nut flush, but also gives you a straight flush. Different hands.

At least thats how I see it

this imo - craziest thread ever?

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The "Nut" hand is the best possible hand, if a straight flush is possible on your board the A high flush is no longer technically the "Nut" hand.

***edit***

just read threeven's quote and wanted to clarify that I was trying to agree, lol. A straight flush is not a flush (its a straight flush.) The "nut flush" is the A high flush while the "nut hand" would be the straight flush.

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Good point sly. So then this would mean that:

With a board of

10h Jh Qh Kh

The "nut flush" would be the the player holding the 8h because a player holding the 9h would have a "straight flush" and the player holding the Ah would have THE "ROYAL FLUSH"

Is this correct to what you are saying?

I like that example,

So we're saying that if we we're playing this hand, we would turn over the 8h and say "I got the nut flush"?????

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really??? so the fact that its named a straight FLUSH means exactly what?

It's a flush as all 5 cards are of the same suit, they just happen to be in sequential (sp) order, thus making the odds of achieving that more difficult therefor it is ranked higher.

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afaik, the term "nut flush" refers to the best possible flush given what's showing on the board. More often than not, that means ace-high. in this case it doesn't, and in fact nobody has the nut flush. player 2 has the 2nd nut flush.

You are wrong Jd dude has best possible hand cause obv. noone can have QJd since he has Jd

IMO, A high flush always refers to the nut flush whereas I'd always call the Jd in this spot the nuts or a straight flush.

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It doesn't matter what is the most logical thing to call the ace in this hand, what matters is what is the acceptable term for the ace. In poker lingo, saying nut flush is just another way to say ace high flush. Most of players in this thread who play for a living who have been around a ton of poker are saying that the ace is still called the nut flush, even if it isn't actually the nuts. Sorry OP I vote against you :(.

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