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nolan

the backing in high stakes mtt is pathetic

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the state of high stakes mtt is pathetic.

marginally EV to greatly +EV players are all backed and nobody has any initiative to actually build their own bankroll. instead they all just make 30k a year while being 200k in makeup praying for a big score so they can please their sugar daddies.

cash game players are the only poker players deserving of respect in todays poker climate.

discuss.

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mtters HAVE TO play marathon sessions. theyre slaves to the schedules on whatever sites they play.

cash players can play whenever. sure, some are mass multitabling fiends who put in sick hours. but many are not. esp if youre talking about really talented players playing mid stakes they play fewer tables and shorter sessions of 1-4 hours. sometimes playing again later, sometimes not.

i play about 4 tables at a time(only 1 or two if im playing hu) and an avg of 18-20 hours a week. and i wish i could go back to when i was putzing around in lower-midstakes tournies having my soul crushed for 10+ hours almost every day and have a quick talk with myself about what i should be playing...and also about betting it all on the giants moneyline against the pats ldo.

Game selection is key for most cash game grinders, so in a sense they are also slaves to certain schedules as well. Its not like cgg can just play whenever they feel like it and profit the same amount at any given time during the week or the day.

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Frank, you remind me alot like Sctrojans (when he was a reg) when it comes to posting in this forum. You come off like a dickhead 75% of the time, but are correct in what you are saying 99% of the time. Sick lure.

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While I admit Nolan is a solid, very good cash player from his stats, it doesn't say much for his maturity when about 80% of his posts on P5's are complete flame jobs.

Keep winning your money playing cash games, sir. If you have such a problem with the HSMTT world, then stay out of it. If it's -EV for you to play on your own roll and/or you've had people reject backing you, maybe it's simply a sign to stick with what works.

If you're 24 and made over $400K playing cash on PS, then why are you bitching about the HSMTT world?

Cliff Notes

- Stick to cash dude. You rape there.

- Leave the HSMTTs to the HSMTT players and don't play.

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Frank, you remind me alot like Sctrojans (when he was a reg) when it comes to posting in this forum. You come off like a dickhead 75% of the time, but are correct in what you are saying 99% of the time. Sick lure.

Don't let him see this. But I'll take that as a compliment I suppose, that's always been my goal tbh!

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grinded low-mid stakes cash last year (decent bb/100 too) and was supernova up until march of this year...busting heads in low limit mtts is muuuuch more profitable than low limit cash game. You do sacrifice flexibility but I'll take it seeings how my bar tabs can now be a little larger ;)

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I guess I don't totally understand how the backing game works.

The OP says that some backed players are making 30k per year while being 200k in makeup. I always thought that you had to clear makeup before you can reap 50% of the profits.

How do you make 30k per year if you are 200k in makeup? Does the backer still pay his/her players even though the horse is deep in makeup and may never be able to completely rebound?

I know the theory is that if somebody has a solid ROI over a large sample size then theoretically they should eventually clear makeup but what if they don't? The only option the backer has at that point is to ride out the storm or drop the horse from their stable.

So where is Nolan the magnificent getting this 30k guaranteed salary? Is he wrong? Or am I just incredibly stupid?

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So where is Nolan the magnificent getting this 30k guaranteed salary? Is he wrong? Or am I just incredibly stupid?

I've never heard of a staking deal with any amount of guaranteed salary, so I assume he's saying that these guys bink maybe 1 major a year and it's enough to clear their makeup and leave them with something like $30k left over.

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So where is Nolan the magnificent getting this 30k guaranteed salary? Is he wrong? Or am I just incredibly stupid?

I've never heard of a staking deal with any amount of guaranteed salary, so I assume he's saying that these guys bink maybe 1 major a year and it's enough to clear their makeup and leave them with something like $30k left over.

1 of my friends has a backing deal (not with me or anyone that posts on P5's) that he gets a guaranteed amount per month even if he is in make-up.. Its about what you negotiate up front with your backer.. Any time he is in make-up though, he still gets his salary, but it doubles back on the make-up portion..

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No I'm being serious. I'd say OP has made 400-500k playing cash on stars alone...

Sick read by me, oops. I still thought Frank was leveling even with this response until I saw that MMM typed the same thing at the same time about him having $400K in profit. I pride myself on my forum reads, I guess I'm slipping lol. I just assumed he was some jealous troll like most others who post this type of thread, sorry OP. OP has a point that backing makes MTT's more difficult, but if OP would have played the $3K at Commerce this weekend he would realize that high stakes tournaments have a very long way to go until they become a lot of people just passing around the money of a few fish. There are still many fish in the sea my friend. I don't agree with the OP as far as being backed, there are a lot reasons to be backed and Frank has done a good job of explaining those itt.

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grinded low-mid stakes cash last year (decent bb/hr too) and was supernova up until march of this year...busting heads in low limit mtts is muuuuch more profitable than low limit cash game. You do sacrifice flexibility but I'll take it seeings how my bar tabs can now be a little larger ;)

what stakes did u play and how many hrs and tables do u have to play to make SNE on average?

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Keep thinking there is little decision making. I'm sure it'll get you far in mtts. Also that chart reflects stack sizes based on your starting stack never changing from the beginning. 5 hours in the average stack is significantly higher relative to those blind levels. So yeah your post fails on multiple levels.

I said there is little decision making when you are short stacked. You don't get it though I understand. Play some cash games for 100BB buy-in and compare the decision making to MTTs and you might see the difference. You might see how many trivial spots there actually are in MTTs. How far do I need to get in MTTs? I'm a just a decent player and yet I make 6-figures a year from it, which I couldn't do in any other job I've previously had. I could probably get a lobotomy and still make money playing MTTs for a living. So many better players than me, especially in the cash arena but honestly who cares? Just insecure people such as yourself who get offended at the thought of other players being better than you.

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this is correct, but really there are a lot of different points to this.

it is a lot easier to be meh at tournaments and make money/not be a huge loser (see 80% of the people in top 100) than it is at cash games. you cannot play high stakes cash and be meh

but this really does not mean cash games take more skill to be absolutely great at than tournaments. it just means the level of competition in tournaments is so lol

mib wins. Also, believer, we get it. You think youre really good at poker.
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This thread is silly. Both sides make good arguments. As one of the few backed MTT regs that also plays cash(on my own) on a semi regular basis, I can honestly say that both forms of poker require a skill set that is only attained thru PLAYING. I would definitely say that deep stack cash game regs def understand deep stack poker better than mtt regs, not because they are "better" but because they are more accustomed to and familiar with these stack sizes. Just like a MTT reg is much better at being patient, and playing their 10-35bb stack in high equity situations.

Poker is a vast game, and people find their niches. These particualr niches dont mean that one player is "better" than another. Obv the OP would be a better HU deep stack player than an MTT reg, because he is accustomed to playing that. Flip the tables and let the MTTer play cash for 25k hands, and the cash gamer play 500 tourneys. By the end, both will be better.

As far as the backing side of things go, Ive been backed for over 2 years for MTTs and always played cash on my own roll. It has its ups and downs, but you are insane if you really think the "elite" backed mtt regs dont make a shit load of money. The same goes for the "elite" cash game guys.

I just love poker in all its forms, and I take great offense to someone who pigeon holes all MTT players as people without initiative who play solely for the approval of their "sugar daddies".

BTW I had a stable of high stakes regs too. So I understand every aspect of it.

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I said there is little decision making when you are short stacked. You don't get it though I understand. Play some cash games for 100BB buy-in and compare the decision making to MTTs and you might see the difference. You might see how many trivial spots there actually are in MTTs. How far do I need to get in MTTs? I'm a just a decent player and yet I make 6-figures a year from it, which I couldn't do in any other job I've previously had. I could probably get a lobotomy and still make money playing MTTs for a living. So many better players than me, especially in the cash arena but honestly who cares? Just insecure people such as yourself who get offended at the thought of other players being better than you.

I've played a lot of cash games. I know what the differences are. I'm also the first to admit that I am struggling to beat 2/4 6m online despite making 6 figures playing live cash over the past 2 years. I'm just breakeven to slight loser in it and will continue losing until I fix it.

I think there's a difference in what you are suggesting my insecurity is. I know who I am better than, and I know who I am worse than. I know which tournament players and cash game players I struggle with and those I seem to crush. Also fwiw I am not sitting here defending tournament players as being better than cash players. The majority of people I talk poker with are cash players, and they are all better than me. All I'm saying is there is more to the decision making even with a 20 bb stack than most people seem to comprehend instead of just monkeying their stack off.

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All I'm saying is there is more to the decision making even with a 20 bb stack than most people seem to comprehend instead of just monkeying their stack off.

agreed...gutshot summed it up best...kind of a pointless argument when you realize all games of poker take a certain level of skill to beat and it doesn't really matter what game takes more skill than another. does it? only for ego purposes i think...

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This thread is silly. Both sides make good arguments. As one of the few backed MTT regs that also plays cash(on my own) on a semi regular basis, I can honestly say that both forms of poker require a skill set that is only attained thru PLAYING. I would definitely say that deep stack cash game regs def understand deep stack poker better than mtt regs, not because they are "better" but because they are more accustomed to and familiar with these stack sizes. Just like a MTT reg is much better at being patient, and playing their 10-35bb stack in high equity situations.

Poker is a vast game, and people find their niches. These particualr niches dont mean that one player is "better" than another. Obv the OP would be a better HU deep stack player than an MTT reg, because he is accustomed to playing that. Flip the tables and let the MTTer play cash for 25k hands, and the cash gamer play 500 tourneys. By the end, both will be better.

As far as the backing side of things go, Ive been backed for over 2 years for MTTs and always played cash on my own roll. It has its ups and downs, but you are insane if you really think the "elite" backed mtt regs dont make a shit load of money. The same goes for the "elite" cash game guys.

I just love poker in all its forms, and I take great offense to someone who pigeon holes all MTT players as people without initiative who play solely for the approval of their "sugar daddies".

BTW I had a stable of high stakes regs too. So I understand every aspect of it.

Sure there is different skill sets but I can't see how you could argue that cash game players aren't better overall poker players than tourney players. If you take any winning 2/4+ player and put them in tourneys they will either immediately be a winner or figure out how to pushbot in like 2 weeks and be a winner. Same can't be said about tourney players switching to cash as most ranked p5ers cannot beat 2/4

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