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_rayden_

4 bet shove ?????? $50 +$5 UB

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Stage #315948907 Tourney ID 5683353 UB $50.00 + $5.00 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 500 - 2010-08-13 11:36:33 (ET)

Table: 25 (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer

Seat 1 - _RAYDEN_ (6,578 in chips)

Seat 2 - MAXGL (21,846 in chips)

Seat 3 - BEAMA111 (34,291 in chips)

Seat 4 - NOVACINGOOD (22,655 in chips)

Seat 5 - JAYACH (13,981 in chips)

Seat 6 - DANCAM1961 (4,515 in chips)

Seat 8 - LUCKYDAWG44 (29,453 in chips)

Seat 9 - OXSINPERXO (3,978 in chips)

_RAYDEN_ - Ante 50

MAXGL - Ante 50

BEAMA111 - Ante 50

NOVACINGOOD - Ante 50

JAYACH - Ante 50

DANCAM1961 - Ante 50

LUCKYDAWG44 - Ante 50

OXSINPERXO - Ante 50

JAYACH - Posts small blind 250

DANCAM1961 - Posts big blind 500

*** POCKET CARDS ***

Dealt to _RAYDEN_ [Jc Kh]

LUCKYDAWG44 - Folds

OXSINPERXO - Folds

_RAYDEN_ - Raises 1,000 to 1,000

MAXGL - Folds

BEAMA111 - Folds

NOVACINGOOD - Raises 3,000 to 3,000

JAYACH - Folds

DANCAM1961 - Folds

_RAYDEN_ ????????

Villian seems solid and tight through about 40 - 50 hands

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Think bout these things b4 you raise in the first place, but don't even raise pre to start wtih.

Thats Y I raised min. I've been noticing that lately at the higher buy-ins deep in tourneys. Thinking the action would fold to BB who would call with wide range and then shove on the flop

Ok Ok...I get it...fold So what should be shoving range for 13 BBs? pre flop I'm asking

Edited by _rayden_
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This might be a shove pre-flop based upon the table dynamic.

With these stacks and in this position I can't think of a situation where this is a raise/ANYTHING.

As played click a button. I really don't think it matters much because neither folding nor calling will save this hand from the scrap heap.

Edited by s.l. halper
Tried to soften the nastiness...failed.
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shove pre is fine but fold as played obv

Stage #315948907 Tourney ID 5683353 UB $50.00 + $5.00 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 500 - 2010-08-13 11:36:33 (ET)

Table: 25 (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer

Seat 1 - _RAYDEN_ (6,578 in chips)

Seat 2 - MAXGL (21,846 in chips)

Seat 3 - BEAMA111 (34,291 in chips)

Seat 4 - NOVACINGOOD (22,655 in chips)

Seat 5 - JAYACH (13,981 in chips)

Seat 6 - DANCAM1961 (4,515 in chips)

Seat 8 - LUCKYDAWG44 (29,453 in chips)

Seat 9 - OXSINPERXO (3,978 in chips)

_RAYDEN_ - Ante 50

MAXGL - Ante 50

BEAMA111 - Ante 50

NOVACINGOOD - Ante 50

JAYACH - Ante 50

DANCAM1961 - Ante 50

LUCKYDAWG44 - Ante 50

OXSINPERXO - Ante 50

JAYACH - Posts small blind 250

DANCAM1961 - Posts big blind 500

*** POCKET CARDS ***

Dealt to _RAYDEN_ [Jc Kh]

LUCKYDAWG44 - Folds

OXSINPERXO - Folds

_RAYDEN_ - Raises 1,000 to 1,000

MAXGL - Folds

BEAMA111 - Folds

NOVACINGOOD - Raises 3,000 to 3,000

JAYACH - Folds

DANCAM1961 - Folds

_RAYDEN_ ????????

Villian seems solid and tight through about 40 - 50 hands

theres ur answer btw

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To answer your question, most of the 'good players' you're speaking of min raise, but typically with around a 20ish bb plus stack. Anything less and you start to get into open jam territory. With that said, you have 13.5ish bbs, so your best bet is to open jam or fold. You are nowhere near the minumum number of chips to be able to make a standard raise.

As far as the actual hand, it is profitable to shove here. I don't know wtf the people saying fold are looking at, but the chart I have says jam with KJo as the minimum in the offsuit king ranges.

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To answer your question, most of the 'good players' you're speaking of min raise, but typically with around a 20ish bb plus stack. Anything less and you start to get into open jam territory. With that said, you have 13.5ish bbs, so your best bet is to open jam or fold. You are nowhere near the minumum number of chips to be able to make a standard raise.

As far as the actual hand, it is profitable to shove here. I don't know wtf the people saying fold are looking at, but the chart I have says jam with KJo as the minimum in the offsuit king ranges.

Thanks. This is proper feedback

Pretty sure I won this tourney. If not it was Saturdays.

Brag...Not the same tourney...Congrats!!!

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if you are minraising because they are supertight and only raise with hands that dominates KJ by far, i dont understand why you would call,

if your minraising to induce because some reraise happy fellows are behind you i understand u shove it in vs his 3bet, still sketchy imo,

I'm min raising to get induce action only from the big blind and I can easily let go of the hand if anybody else 3bets. I've notice a trend that good players are min raising late in tourneys so I'm trying to pick up on the strategy

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is it profitiable if he only reraises QQ+ and AK+? i dont think you are getting the odds, still it depends on what he's reraising, and i think you are never good with KJ and i dont believe u should call your stack off here because some ''good'' odds,

and besides,

if you are minraising because they are supertight and only raise with hands that dominates KJ by far, i dont understand why you would call,

if your minraising to induce because some reraise happy fellows are behind you i understand u shove it in vs his 3bet, still sketchy imo,

Did you not read my post at all? I stated that a general rule of thumb for lots of people is to raise all in or fold around the 20ish BB or less stack size. The hero has 13 BBs in this spot so the only option is to raise all in or fold since he's well under 20 BBs. It then becomes a point of whether or not it's profitable to jam 13 BBs from the HJ+1. In this case it is profitable to jam unexploitably, so doing anything else is a mistake. I'm still baffled by the number of people saying to fold here.

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I'm min raising to get induce action only from the big blind and I can easily let go of the hand if anybody else 3bets. I've notice a trend that good players are min raising late in tourneys so I'm trying to pick up on the strategy

your def NOT getting it.

but gl in your future endeavours

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2 players fold, 5 to act behind you. Looking at stacks behind you, there are 2 stacks that can call your shove without risking a ton and the blinds are likely only getting it in if they have you beat. That being said, KJo is usually a marginal shove in this spot with your M of ~5.7 with a 6 handed effective table. I lean towards a fold.

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shoving would be atrocious he will fold 0% of the time and a tight players 3b range is crushng you

either fold or shove pre... i think its a close fold

Did you not read my post at all? I stated that a general rule of thumb for lots of people is to raise all in or fold around the 20ish BB or less stack size. The hero has 13 BBs in this spot so the only option is to raise all in or fold since he's well under 20 BBs. It then becomes a point of whether or not it's profitable to jam 13 BBs from the HJ+1. In this case it is profitable to jam unexploitably, so doing anything else is a mistake. I'm still baffled by the number of people saying to fold here.

whos chart are yuou using or did you just use a nash calculator

Edited by pikappraider78
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I'm min raising to get induce action only from the big blind and I can easily let go of the hand if anybody else 3bets. I've notice a trend that good players are min raising late in tourneys so I'm trying to pick up on the strategy

Ya but they don't min raise when they have 10-15bb... And they definitely don't min raise fold.

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I get it I get it!!!! Shove pre with KJo utg+1 being the 1st in the pot with an M~6. I just wanted to make sure I FULLY understand from all angles and to make sure I'm exploring all possible strategies. Scarypooper. I already gave you props for the best answer in your 1st post. I was just seeing if anybody else had any opinions on the subject of min raising pre. Thanks everybody for all the advice and btw I folded

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Raise folding in early position with your 13bb stack isn't that great. You're better off either open shoving or just open folding since you are raise/folding too much of your stack. If you were going to m/r and you get 3b, it should be with intentions to get it all in but since you didn't have those intentions, you are better off open shoving or folding.

-Randy Lew

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