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Gags30

Top pair at 100r final table vs a reg's lead

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Ok, i don't usually post hands (at least not as of late), but i thought this was a rather interesting...and in the spirit of the new forum, i thought it'd be a good one to generate some discussion.

This hand is from wed night's 100r 6m on tilt. Was a pretty unique situation in that we've been very very very deep stacked for the last 5 or 6 levels. at 2k/4k the average stack at my table was around 475k, so we definitely had a lot of room. anyway...this is at the final table so i suppose there's some ICM to take into consideration, but i'm really more interested in the discussion of the hand than actual icm implications or w/e...

for this hand, i am actually the villain...i thought it was way more interesting this way, and that big huni actually had a really tough spot.

as for reads on the players involved, me and huni have played a lot together, and we're both know the other is aggressive and smart...butcan get crazy if the time is appropriate. as for Crazy Elior, he has been 3 and 4 betting a lot and opening even more, and seems really aggressive and capable as well. I don't want to give away too much about what i think about the hand, but let's just say...if he thought the 2 of us were weak, he coudln't definitely check/raise here with absolutely nothing.

ok onto the hand...huni opens (we open) the button, and both blinds flat...we get a good flop...and gags takes a few seconds before leading into us. we've seen him do this with 2 tables left, where he flat and lead into us, but it didn't get to showdown, so we're not quite sure what it means yet...we're pretty sure we have the best hand and just call. now the sb check/raises...and gags flats...again, we're pretty sure that the sb can be light here quite a bit, so we're not overly concerned about him...but he certainly could have a hand like 2pair or a set...and what about gags. what is gags leading the flop with, and then flatting here with, a set, a draw, top pair, 2nd pair?...and what on earth do we do now?

Full Tilt Poker Game #xxxxxxxxx: $100,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (xxxxxxxxx), Table 53 - 5000/10000 Ante 1000 - No Limit Hold'em - 04:04:11 ET - 2011/03/17

Seat 1: Big Huni (695,571)

Seat 2: Crazy Elior (479,587)

Seat 3: Gags30 (877,565)

Seat 4: mikefloss (412,370)

Seat 6: THE UTE (339,907)

Big Huni antes 1,000

Crazy Elior antes 1,000

Gags30 antes 1,000

mikefloss antes 1,000

THE UTE antes 1,000

Crazy Elior posts the small blind of 5,000

Gags30 posts the big blind of 10,000

The button is in seat #1

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to Big Huni [Ks Jh]

mikefloss folds

THE UTE folds

Big Huni raises to 22,225

Crazy Elior has 15 seconds left to act

Crazy Elior calls 17,225

Gags30 calls 12,225

*** FLOP *** [2d Jd 8s]

Crazy Elior has 15 seconds left to act

Crazy Elior checks

Gags30 has 15 seconds left to act

Gags30 bets 33,340

Big Huni calls 33,340

Crazy Elior has 15 seconds left to act

Crazy Elior raises to 91,457

Gags30 has 15 seconds left to act

Gags30 has requested TIME

Gags30 calls 58,117

Big Huni has 15 seconds left to act

Big Huni ????

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23 answers to this question

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With the lead into 2 players by Gags and the small check-raise which is screeeaaaming for action and THEN the flat by Gags, seems like an easy fold to me like 90% of the time -- the other 10% would be dependent on game flow and reads in the heat of the moment

Not even sure what we'll be rooting for if we decide to peel...

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I'd fold here and not even sweat it. Huni could flat, but I think playing the hand that way you most likely will get to the river and possibly let diamonds get there. I don't see much value in trying to get it in on the flop. If I did flat the flop in Hunis spot and it checked to me, I would be inclined to possibly check back since the pot is so huge already against two players. That's why I say I'd rather fold the flop. For gags to lead, then flat here.. it's pretty strong and polarized to a smaller range. If you think he has a lot of Jxs and 3bets AJ then sure go ahead and flat if the other villain is spazzing. But you have to be able to check back the turn because I doubt anyone is getting it in worse if a blank rolls off. -- Edit.. check back turn or bet fold turn in most cases if vs 2 players I would imagine.

Edited by Cre8ive
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seems like a quick click of the fold button before you can convince yourself to call here... aside from running cards u cud b drawing prty thin after the action on this flop... gags range is pretty polarized here i feel 22, maybe 88/j8... the lead cud imply 910dd or Axdd but when he flats sb re-pop i feel his range has to be alot stronger then one pair as well as i think he wud most likely b gettin it in w 910dd or Axdd... so ya i foldz

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SBs range is unsure. I doubt he'll have complete air given his sizing and the likely hood that two people will call, but he might have 9Ts QTs Q9s T7s 97s type of hands in his x/r range w/backdoor draws that can pick up a lot of extra equity on the turn. As well as AJ+ type of hands, including QQ+..

Gags range I'm not sure, but basically he could donk the same range as the SBs x/r his range and decide hes light and peel his draws in position, assuming Big Huni is mostly weak here and almost never has better then Aces, so he wont be capable of calling another turn bet if SB would check, gags could lead with his whole range since I doubt the SB would slowplay the turn with any of his strong hands and Gags can then comfortably beat Big Huni from his range and most likely the SB as well...

No idea what card we are looking for if we are big huni. Just because of that reason and the fact that our range looks really weak + we have relatively 0 information on gags his hand and the SBs range can be really wide. I fold because i would hate to fold to a blank turn or river and neither want to call down multiple streets this deep.

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idk i think this is a pretty c-bettable board so i feel you would be more inclined to c/r the stronger end of your range...i would expect the donk range to be weighted toward 2nd pair type hands and draws/hands you dont feel comfortable c/cing or c/ring (with sets too occasionally for balance obv)...once you call the raise tho id say you are probably near the top of ur range and in hunis spot the pot is getting bloated and turns r gona really suck so id just fold i guess

edit- tried quoting gags last response but im a forum n00b

Edited by benvo123
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Insta fold. KJ could very well be the best hand atm, but trying to play this on multiple streets in a multiway checkraised pot will not show a profit for sure.

Yeah id fold cos of this reasoning

Also - looking at the people posting in these threads, im very much enjoying the new highstakes forum

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Doubt KJ is best here. This has to be a fold. Also agree with Frank...this is a nightmare on multiple streets.

Maybe if one of your opponents folded, but with both still in, top pair isn't good against a range of draws and sets, and what, both have air? Daut it.

Gags is probably leading with a set, knowing that this board is both draw heavy and probably hit one of the two opponents in this hand.

That flat is frighteningly strong.

Edited by R.J_Legit
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alright...i guess the biggest thing here is that it's a multi-way pot, and just gonna be tough to continue. i thought it was a pretty interesting spot given the fact that the sb coudl be light quite often here. i guess it's still just gonna be too tough to play though...

i did have a set of 2's here, and the sb c/folded the turn, so he indeed had nothing.

thanks for the input

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i think it's interesting that you say this, what do you think my range is here then?

Its more to do with Elioh's range than yours, I just wouldn't expect him to CR air here alot of the time against you two just because he has been 3betting and 4betting pre alot. I could see how you could play 22 deceptively here but I don't think you're necessarily nutted just because u flatted a CR. With that said I could see you bet/calling some weaker draws (peeling a turn) that you're not comfortable shipping in with huni acting after you. I must admit alot of this is guesswork cos I havent played with you a ton.

alright...i guess the biggest thing here is that it's a multi-way pot, and just gonna be tough to continue. i thought it was a pretty interesting spot given the fact that the sb coudl be light quite often here. i guess it's still just gonna be too tough to play though...

i did have a set of 2's here, and the sb c/folded the turn, so he indeed had nothing.

thanks for the input

just beat me :(

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