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daughton

Play my hand.

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Game No : 245123338

Cassava Hand History for Game 245123338

$1,000/$2,000 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 17 11 2011 18:49:58

Tournament #34257475 $3.15 + $0.35 - Table #10 (Real Money)

Seat 4 is the button

Total number of players : 8

Seat 1: JoanOfArc10 ( $41,492)

Seat 2: Brule114 ( $29,098 )

Seat 3: MeerkatPT ( $121,540)

Seat 4: kyemassey ( $26,163 )

Seat 6: luckyshark99 ( $101,223

Seat 7: WiredFox ( $77,831 )]

Seat 9: thedaddy13 ( $62,024 )

[seat 10: ROplAAyerrr ( $20,438

MeerkatPT posts ante [$200]

JoanOfArc10 posts ante [$200]

Brule114 posts ante [$200

kyemassey posts ante [$200]

luckyshark99 posts ante [$200]

WiredFox posts ante [$200]

thedaddy13 posts ante [$200]

ROplAAyerrr posts ante [$200]

luckyshark99 posts small blind [$1,000]

WiredFox posts big blind [$2,000]

**Dealing down cards **

Dealt to WiredFox [ Kc, 3d ]

thedaddy13 folds

ROplAAyerrr folds

JoanOfArc10 folds

Brule114 folds

MeerkatPT raises [$4,300]

This is from the CO and the player has been aggressive.

kyemassey folds

luckyshark99 folds

WiredFox calls [$2,300]

This is only $2,300 more into a pot of $8,900 with a stack of almost 40 BB

**Dealing flop ** [ 7c, 8d, 3s ]

WiredFox checks

MeerkatPT bets [$5,600]

Villain has been C betting a lot and this bet is for half the pot, so the Hero decides to float.

It’s a call of about 1/15th of Hero’s stack.

WiredFox calls [$5,600]

**Dealing turn ** [ 2d ]

WiredFox checks

MeerkatPT checks

**Dealing river ** [ Qh ]

WiredFox checks

MeerkatPT bets [$11,200]

Pot on the river stands at $22,400, the Villain has just bet half the pot again taking the pot size to $33,600

WiredFox ???????

Explain how you'd play the hand differently if so and most importantly what should the Hero do here and why?

Edited by daughton
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15 answers to this question

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Ok, fair point, even if it is 4-1 to make the call; does nobody see any value in that call when you're 3-1 to hit the flop when you're 40BB deep?

...but, seeing as there are 70 views and neither of the only two who bothered to reply actually read how it did play out after the flop then I am compelled to explicitly ask people:- as played what do you do on the river? because I think it's not as simple as it look Pre.

Edited by daughton
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the reason that it is either a clear fold or 3bet pre is because you are going to constantly get yourself in spots like this, where there is no real answer except go with your gut.

i think flatting oop is like one of the worst mistakes people constantly make because playing oop is just so uneccessary (sp?), and even it you do allow it, K3off should just never ever be flatted here.

I think the reason people arent giving you responses is because the only real response has already been given

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even if to call a 4-1 pot to a constant raisor costs just 1/38th of your stack?

Given the apparent error, which I actually am aware of and don't usually do..... what is your play after the flop (given the notes on the player)?

Btw, you also go no further than the flop and the first part of the question....clearly a fold pre is best but the most interesting parts of the hand after that.

Regardless of the poor call to get to that position, I mean you could be there to a constant 'in position' bettor on a checked flop.

Clearly the key to the question is all about after the flop if any of you bothered to read it. Regardless of how you got there. I don't think there is anyone on this forum who doesn't understand that calling regularly OOP with K3o is poor play, but on this occasion when I did, it was to a constant raisor and was a little fed up - no excuse but nonetheless, what do you do after the flop?

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IF you did get in this position ( I personally fold this pre 100% of the time to avoid these situations) I like a check raise on the flop, if he calls I'm prob giving it up vs LAG player here or maybe barreling the turn if I feel he really has nothing, but completely dependant on my read of the player at the time.

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Fold pre, and it's not even remotely close, even given the apparant great odds you speak of. You're oop post flop and against most opponents on most flops you're going to check fold (and thus have committed more chips to pots you're very rarely going to win). Even bad players will own you with this bad of a hand when you're out of position.

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even if to call a 4-1 pot to a constant raisor costs just 1/38th of your stack?

Given the apparent error, which I actually am aware of and don't usually do..... what is your play after the flop (given the notes on the player)?

Btw, you also go no further than the flop and the first part of the question....clearly a fold pre is best but the most interesting parts of the hand after that.

Regardless of the poor call to get to that position, I mean you could be there to a constant 'in position' bettor on a checked flop.

Clearly the key to the question is all about after the flop if any of you bothered to read it. Regardless of how you got there. I don't think there is anyone on this forum who doesn't understand that calling regularly OOP with K3o is poor play, but on this occasion when I did, it was to a constant raisor and was a little fed up - no excuse but nonetheless, what do you do after the flop?

if your fed up with his frequent raising, I would play back at him while your deep enough and see how he reacts. I think the best option is to 3bet pre to 6600 ish and if called lead out most flops with a half pot bet. As played, im folding the river bet here simply because there has not been enough info gathered in this hand to justify a call.

oh.. and fold pre next time with k,3 in the BB :-}

Edited by racer
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Fold pre.. or 3 bet pre, dunno what his fold to 3bet% or what your 3bet percentage out of the bb is but either way those are you two options... never just calling there and playing k3 off out of position.

thats exactly what i thought

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shouldn't be any speculation on how to play pre flop which is why this happened in the first place. Just fold or 3bet as everyone has said already but post flop i'd probably check-call-lead or check raise fold. If you're going to play passive that's what's going to happen. I'd make some kind of move on the flop or turn to find out where i'm at otherwise you're going to get put in a tough spot on the river most of the time..But yeah like others said playing oop isn't easy, especially with a hand that plays awful like k3o so fold or 3bet and cbet 100% of flops if he flats

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come on man this is the easiest preflop fold... u got frustrated of villains button raises, ur play is one of the reasons why they're so profitable. floating OOP with air is also not a good move. im a pretty good 6max player, u wont believe what plays i made in some 6max tourneys or sngs that i won, but such a play cant be profitable nomather how good u are imo. on the river, u have a pair of 3s..... honestly, don't try to make these hero plays u see on tv

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ok,fair enough. I just think I played stupidly pre and calling the flop.

However after that when he checks behind me on the turn given the board I think it's obvious he has nothing, whilst I have bottom pair.

Given this his half pot bet on the river could be he has a queen or nothing. As it happened it was nothing and my 3 took the pot.

I know it's a fold pre flop and even on the flop I get there and I know I shouldn't be there with K3. I just think it's a different hand when he checks the turn given the type of player he is.

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ok,fair enough. I just think I played stupidly pre and calling the flop.

However after that when he checks behind me on the turn given the board I think it's obvious he has nothing, whilst I have bottom pair.

Given this his half pot bet on the river could be he has a queen or nothing. As it happened it was nothing and my 3 took the pot.

I know it's a fold pre flop and even on the flop I get there and I know I shouldn't be there with K3. I just think it's a different hand when he checks the turn given the type of player he is.

when he checks back turn after u call flop that doesnt auto mean he has nothing, he could be checking back a hand with showdown value to control the pot and see what u do on the river, his plan could be to call most of your river bets turning his hand into a bluff catcher if he does have some type of value hand, when u check river again his plan could of been to bet his hand for value thinking he is still good

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yep looks like you got lucky mate, if you take this line with any 2, youre calling in the dark every time arent you? as played i do like that you made the call and saw it through and think this 'roper doper strategy' has its place too- especially if the bet sizes are a tell. what did he have btw?

q to the pros here? if hes against a steaming big stack whos unlikely to fold the 4k to a 3bet at all (this being a $3) and is likely to spew off 15k with this line 100% the time does daughton have a point and the call pre become optimal to the 3bet?

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However after that when he checks behind me on the turn given the board I think it's obvious he has nothing, whilst I have bottom pair.

This isn't always the case, I see villains check the turn plenty to make the opponent think exactly what you thought here. I do it myself. Gives you some false security so that with the right river card you get taken to value town thinking I'm bluffing.

Honestly, you defended your blind with a hand that plays terrible post flop then you float the flop with no real plan of what you'll do on upcoming streets. I see this all the time and players just throw away chips over defending their blinds, floating flops and folding on the turn or river. Position is so important and even playing strong hands OOP is hard enough but playing weak hands OOP is even worse. Fold that trash pre-flop. I don't think I'd even choose this hand to 3 bet with honestly there will be better spots for you to play back at him.

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