Jump to content
advertisement_alt
  • 0
nassander

KQs facing a short stack shove, call or fold?

Question

  • 0

Call or Fold?

I get stuck with this hand a bit, especially when the stacks get to be shovy. Never quite sure at which stack sizes a call is good. Understand I am often up against an ace and looking at pokerstove it looks like I'm flipping at best.

Thoughts?

pokerstars Hand #75882916641: Tournament #560010003, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XX (2000/4000) - 2012/02/20 9:22:15 AEST [2012/02/19 17:22:15 ET]

Table '560010003 2922' 9-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: Maksimovich7 (87379 in chips)

Seat 2: B.J1289 (25362 in chips)

Seat 3: nassander (154196 in chips)

Seat 4: yea321 (40492 in chips)

Seat 5: st.anger6669 (76421 in chips)

Seat 6: soluckyl^.^l (68880 in chips)

Seat 7: EFENDI (26080 in chips)

Seat 8: PeruPRO (96278 in chips)

Seat 9: Mastermixus (71840 in chips)

Maksimovich7: posts the ante 400

B.J1289: posts the ante 400

nassander: posts the ante 400

yea321: posts the ante 400

st.anger6669: posts the ante 400

soluckyl^.^l: posts the ante 400

EFENDI: posts the ante 400

PeruPRO: posts the ante 400

Mastermixus: posts the ante 400

B.J1289: posts small blind 2000

nassander: posts big blind 4000

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to nassander [Kc Qc]

yea321: raises 36092 to 40092 and is all-in

st.anger6669: folds

soluckyl^.^l: folds

EFENDI: folds

PeruPRO: folds

Mastermixus: folds

Maksimovich7: folds

B.J1289: folds

nassander ???

Link to post
Share on other sites

24 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

reg/random? player read - tight/loose? winning/losing player? hud info?

run the numbers in stove to differing ranges and see what hands have enough equity to call.

how did this player get to this stack? did he just lose a hand? nitting sweaters?

alot depends on player read/capability.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

I looked up yea321 under OPR and he looks like a solid player in the smaller buy-in events. I could see JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, AJ, A10s, A9s, in his range here which your 40-50% ish not terrible but I'm not too happy. Maybe........... KJ, K10s which your dominating. There is a good chance your dominated too. Pretty easy fold. You got 4400 invested, not even 3% of your stack and it costs another 36000? You got enough behind to relax for now.

Edited by FrankieV
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

I have ran this this exact spot many times and called more ofter than not because they should be jamming A5s+, A8o+, K10s+, any pair, and many sooted connectors plus here on the tight end. With that in mind though, from utg they seem to have the a loose ace or A10+ more often than not. I stopped calling in this spot especially if I lose and it takes my stack below 30 blinds. I agree with kevmode that it is a must call if they are jamming from mid to late pos. Agaisnt a good reg it a call all day though. GL at the tables.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

It's close for sure. If it's a field I think I'm a big favorite in verse the average player, I fold. If it's a tougher field I'm probably taking a spot like this. I suggest downloading pokerstove and plugging in some ranges and seeing exactly what they need to be shoving for it to be a call.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

Given me a lot to think about thanks.

I called and he rolled over A5 and he took it down with ace high.

I think in that spot again I am folding because:

- I am in no way committed to the hand in terms of chips

- Losing 1/3 of my stack is going to have a much worse impact than the positives of gaining 1/3 since I will no longer be the clear chip leader at the table, and will be roughly equal with a couple of other players. I think I need to stay ahead to get deep in these large mtts

- I think if it was about 20K a call would be ok

- As said by others his range utg screams Ax or better, why risk my edge of chip leader for a possible flip - not worth the gamble

Poker stove against his hand:

44.5% KcQc

55.5% Ac5d

Pokerstove against his open shoving range:

46% KcQc

54% 22+, A8s+, A5s, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, ATo+

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
Given me a lot to think about thanks.

I called and he rolled over A5 and he took it down with ace high.

I think in that spot again I am folding because:

- I am in no way committed to the hand in terms of chips

- Losing 1/3 of my stack is going to have a much worse impact than the positives of gaining 1/3 since I will no longer be the clear chip leader at the table, and will be roughly equal with a couple of other players. I think I need to stay ahead to get deep in these large mtts

- I think if it was about 20K a call would be ok

- As said by others his range utg screams Ax or better, why risk my edge of chip leader for a possible flip - not worth the gamble

Poker stove against his hand:

44.5% KcQc

55.5% Ac5d

Pokerstove against his open shoving range:

46% KcQc

54% 22+, A8s+, A5s, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, ATo+

huh? he had A5o and u think his range is A8s+?? am i missing something?

forgot to say: i fold there since players in such a tourney simply dont know how wide they actually should shove with that stack. also because of my edge, but the main reason is the first one.

Edited by RedIceRap
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
huh? he had A5o and u think his range is A8s+?? am i missing something?

forgot to say: i fold there since players in such a tourney simply dont know how wide they actually should shove with that stack. also because of my edge, but the main reason is the first one.

That....is a good point.

Red Ice what is the minimum hand you would call with in that spot?

Edited by bcassidy
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
huh? he had A5o and u think his range is A8s+?? am i missing something?

forgot to say: i fold there since players in such a tourney simply dont know how wide they actually should shove with that stack. also because of my edge, but the main reason is the first one.

I just used Tony G's open shoving range at 10BBs from UTG. When in the hand I didn't know what those ranges were, but I did consider that I was at least facing an Ace, but I have done some research and here I am saying that even against what he should be shoving, I am not a favorite.

Like you say, it's more probable that his hand is gonna be even stronger.

I think your calling range makes sense to me too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

i actually think your a favourite against his shoving range with that stack and although he's under gun like the other guy said IMO that makes him more likely to shove sometimes cos he's just about to lose 6000 chips by going through the blinds. In pokerstove i make you a 51% favourite. Seeing that he pushed with A5o he would most likely push any ace there so as a 51% favourite in the hand and with decent 1.38/1 pot odds and a nice hand yourself and a good chance to get to 200k in chips i think you should call. Also if you lose you only drop to 110,000 which means your only risking 26% of your chips, pretty nice with KQsuited. I understand what your saying about having an edge over the table but you will still keep that edge even if you lose with your poker skill and chip lead.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0
i actually think your a favourite against his shoving range with that stack and although he's under gun like the other guy said IMO that makes him more likely to shove sometimes cos he's just about to lose 6000 chips by going through the blinds. In pokerstove i make you a 51% favourite. Seeing that he pushed with A5o he would most likely push any ace there so as a 51% favourite in the hand and with decent 1.38/1 pot odds and a nice hand yourself and a good chance to get to 200k in chips i think you should call. Also if you lose you only drop to 110,000 which means your only risking 26% of your chips, pretty nice with KQsuited. I understand what your saying about having an edge over the table but you will still keep that edge even if you lose with your poker skill and chip lead.

please give us the range u think he's shoving and KQ is ahead of

Board:

Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied

Hand 0: 53.437% 51.83% 01.61% 1114683864 34550326.00 { 22+, A2s+, KJs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, 43s, 32s, A2o+, KQo }

Hand 1: 46.563% 44.96% 01.61% 966869308 34550326.00 { KQs }

Every Ace, ever Pocket, every suited connector and the three top suited one gappers are in this range. this range is much wider than his shoving range would ever be! and KQs still only has 46.5%! it's a clear fold!

Edited by RedIceRap
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

It's an easy easy easy not even close fold.

Alotta over analyzing going on here.

Learn the Gap Concept. And at this stage in the tourney it's not worth the risk by calling that hand. You can win the same amount by stealing the blinds a few times.

And you have king high....don't talk yourself into a call here, pick your spots and control the action.

This is a tournament and this marginal situation will not win the tournament for you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 0

nice explanation grobo y agree with you.

i think if he is a reg he knows the fist in vigorish concept, and he needs to make a move rather sooner than later, here he is utg so he has just one hand to get to the blinds and lose a good percentaje of his stack, so a call here w 1.38 to 1 its just good, i really think you are a slight favourite here, even if you think you are a 45% underdog i think this is a call

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.