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nyctwon

chip dumping to yourself , (one merge skin to the next)

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I know this will be a tough topic to get some honestly on , but anyone know the ''punishment'' or what has occurred in the past when merge security team has notified a player that they were ''caught''/seen doing this. I can go on about many of the reasons players do this which is pretty obv and the difference between someone doing something sketchy and simply trying to get winnings/funds from the skin youd much rather not play on to the one you run like god on. I know this is probably a question for carbon chris on 2p2 but wanted to see what ppl think around here as far as what kind of outcome can occur from one being accussed of dumping from self to self. I have heard of people having their transfer/withdraw methods being suspended but do not now how it ended up or how long it was disable for. thanks

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1st - you will not be able to login to the same PC from the same ISP/IP address even though you might be going to different skins.

2nd - Chip dumping is just what it is. Get caught - get your accounts suspended. When you try to explain both accounts are yours to regain access, you will have to explain how you were able to login to both accounts at the same time (if you were successful).

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If both are under your own name it will be obvious. People on other sites signed up multiple accounts under the names of others and used different wireless cards to get around the ip add issue. See JJprodigy and many others. It's the same on every site. Banned and you surrender your funds.

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yes totally understood, and appreciate quick response. However once someone responds to them and admit/explains what exactly they did and both parties are on the same page meaning both have an understanding of what and why but that persons ability to transfer and and make withdrawls is still disabled what happens next? Seems like the obv , is to wait for a response from the security dept on basically anything , a resolution , an answer , a response. Figured maybe someone could come out and just be honest and say hey , yea I did it and this is what ended up happening.

in this scenario , im saying , one person dumps to themselves , from lets say , rpm to carbon. something like that. Nothing along the lines of stuff that you mentioned. Its pretty obv ppl do it because merge allows you to have multiple accounts just as long as they are on diff skins and you are not violating rules by like having both playing at the same time or colluding somehow. In this scenario one dumps to self, yes both accounts are signed on at same time but just to do the chip dump for means of getting the funds onto a more comfortable skin for whatever reason.

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you are spot on with that last post steve and i really appreciate the quick imput. I guess maybe its more WHAT I WANT TO HEAR but , yes its frowned upon and somewhat wrong , but players do this for reasons that are kind of out of our control somtimes. thanks for replies. I will keep posted on what occurs

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I think it really depends on how much money your talking. I'm guessing though, it's a significant amount to you to consider this. Also, the fact that you have accounts from 2 different Merge skins makes me think that online poker is important to you (at least being able to play on Merge).

If those assumptions are correct, I wouldn't try to do this. Merge already gets a handful of topics every week or so from someone claiming their money was taken. Now, whether those stories are legitimate or not, it would look like they take a look at this.

Because of this, why risk it? If you can't get your money at all from one of the skins, you shouldn't be playing on it at all. Heck, if one is better, you should only be playing on one.

Assuming this is all on the up and up, I would write them ahead of time, and explain your situation, and hope they don't close both accounts. If they are ok, they might just do the transfer for you. If this is at all shady (even the appearance of shady) just cash out of one of them completely, then put the money on the other site, and pay whatever fees.

If you want to risk this, go ahead. Heck, if you do, give us an update, I would be interested to see. But, if I'm the site, I would be very suspicious of this, and seriously consider closing both of your accounts, and keeping the money.

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I was actually agreeing with almost every thing you said , spot on. But after reading your last 2 sentences , its beyond apparent you have some type of chip on your shoulder. You make great valid points , but If you are the site, you would close both accounts and keep the money? Think about what you just said. That is basically doing what full tilt did to the rest of the poker community. You want to shut both accounts down , go right ahead... Take my money? ''my'' money? that i may have dumped to ''myself'' THINK about that. You dont take someones poker winnings. If i violated a barely enforced rule that harmed absolutely no player but yes the future rake of 1 skin then so be it , you shut me down and ill continue to crush live if I must and yes will miss playing leisurely at home , but you NEVER take a players money unless they were cheating or actually doing something shady , like colluding or anything obviously wrong. But you dont seize funds from anyone. Poker is one of my incomes and that doesn't sound fair no matter what angle I look at it from. However I do appreciate your insight and many points and agree with most. But that last part makes it sound like what I am talking about , chip dumping from self to self is some type of plan to hide the cure for aids. Nothing shady here just a player trying to use a skin basically as a cashier to place funds in a more comfortable spot. WRONG? Maybe.... SHADY? CHEATING? AFFECTING A PLAYERS FUNDS? NO hurting one skins rake? maybe thanks again

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Nyctwon,

First off, I don't own the site, so I don't know what Merge would do. My hunch is as I stated that if the site finds out (and they seem to watch for activity similar to what your trying to do) they would close the accounts. You say it's your money (which I don't disagree with). But there are 2 counter arguments that rational people could have.

1) Why do you have 2 different accounts on Merge skins? Maybe there is some rational reason (one of the skins wasn't a Merge one when you opened it)? But, if you don't have that, what's the reason to have 2? Plus, if you manage to get both logged in, and you argue they are both you, then they will likely want to do an exhaustive search to make sure you weren't multi accounting either cash games or tournaments. That would be a very likely reason why someone wants 2. Even if you haven't done it, this could take a very long time for the site.

2) If they are both valid accounts, why do you have to chip dump? Why not cash out normally from both? This is potentially an issue if one isn't validated, and you don't want to point out that it's your second one unless you have to?

It LOOKS shady. It LOOKS like it could effect other people's accounts. A lot of time, looks are enough.

Quite frankly, I really can't figure out why you want to do this, and you haven't offered up a reason. You have offered up reasons why you should be allowed, because it shouldn't be cheating. But, you never offer up how you got into this spot, and why this makes sense to you, and why you are fighting it so hard. Godspeed, try it and let us know how it works. You think it should, let's take your opinion to the only place that it matters, the security of the Merge skins your currently on. I just don't think it will work (ask my wife, it won't be the first time I've been wrong if it does).

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#1 is standard, I have multiple accounts on different Merge skins to mix it up a little bit if I play there. I used to play there a bit before Black Friday. Sometimes it because one skin offers you a deposit bonus that you want to go through. Other time for cash players its nice to switch up your names a bit, and its a legal way to do it on their network that can be taken advantage of. It is perfectly within the TOS of Merge itself to have accounts on multiple skins.

#2 I agree with you on this. Chip dumping to yourself while it doesn't hurt any players, it does hurt a particular skin. Granted, you can find people on multiple skins to do a site to site transfer with and then cash out itself, but the skins themselves don't want to act as cashiers for other skins otherwise they would allow you to transfer to yourself the same way UB and AP used to because it was owned by the same parent company.

I don't know what the punishment will be. I think based on a case where AJB444 was blantantly cheating with multiple accounts and then chip dumping to himself, I don't think he lost money doing so. But, I do think they will at minimum put the money back with the first skin and let you cash out. They may do that, ask you to cash out, and close your accounts. Or worst case they confiscate the funds. Either way, it doesn't look like you were trying to do any harm in itself, but I think you can see why the skins would not want you to chip dump to yourself. Good luck with your situation, since I don't see this as being multi-accounting, but do so the potential of the high price to pay for doing this being potential for the worst case scenario. Hopefully you get off with just a warning, however.

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I was actually agreeing with almost every thing you said , spot on. But after reading your last 2 sentences , its beyond apparent you have some type of chip on your shoulder. You make great valid points , but If you are the site, you would close both accounts and keep the money? Think about what you just said. That is basically doing what full tilt did to the rest of the poker community. You want to shut both accounts down , go right ahead... Take my money? ''my'' money? that i may have dumped to ''myself'' THINK about that. You dont take someones poker winnings. If i violated a barely enforced rule that harmed absolutely no player but yes the future rake of 1 skin then so be it , you shut me down and ill continue to crush live if I must and yes will miss playing leisurely at home , but you NEVER take a players money unless they were cheating or actually doing something shady , like colluding or anything obviously wrong. But you dont seize funds from anyone. Poker is one of my incomes and that doesn't sound fair no matter what angle I look at it from. However I do appreciate your insight and many points and agree with most. But that last part makes it sound like what I am talking about , chip dumping from self to self is some type of plan to hide the cure for aids. Nothing shady here just a player trying to use a skin basically as a cashier to place funds in a more comfortable spot. WRONG? Maybe.... SHADY? CHEATING? AFFECTING A PLAYERS FUNDS? NO hurting one skins rake? maybe thanks again

What's the point of your rant? Were you really bored when you came up with a question like that,coz tbh it sounds very stupid.

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No offense, but this thread is pointless.

To my knowledge there is no way to log in to multiple skins at the same time...

unless they are registered to different people-

in which case you are not only chip dumping-

u are multi-accounting

As someone stated earlier- if you are serious about poker and don't want to have your account(s) closed be careful to follow the TOS

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lol in response to stepinggrazor , your light years behind the merge way then. You can have an account on EVERY merge skin except pdc and carbon. etc..... this thread is turning out to be barely helpful as certain ppl arent understanding what happend. Hearing someone quote ''multiaccounting'' in this thread of mine makes me think this is my last post on this thread. Last piece of info im giving away as I dont want to hurt peoples incomes, with all your screen names having the same account info on file at each skin , you can ABSOLUTELY sign in to play the same mtt with all 5 of your names. Now if you do this from the same ip , or diff for that matter , I would imagine your risking getting in trouble. But can u physically do this? ummm yes lol DO I DO IT? no I have 1 name on carbon and another on hero. I wake up in the morning and play on either one. mostly carbon. But dumping from that skin to the next to MYSELF is what is in question. Multiaccounting on merge is........ lets just leave that topic alone , but I have never multiaccounted in my life , nor do i say this because I think you are accusing me but want ppl to be more clear on how merge operates as it is night and day from stars or tilt. It is more on the levels of ub and ap regarding security and modernizing the skin. This thread was posted for real feedback regarding realistic opinions and realistic experiences on the topic of CHIP DUMPING TO YOURSELF FROM ONE SKIN TO THE NEXT . pls focus on the subject at matter , not multiaccounting. thanks again all

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I never accused anyone of anything.

I said to my knowledge you could not log into your legit merge accounts (obv on different skins) at

the SAME TIME - at least that's how it was when I started on merge.

Have you been able to log on to multple skins at the same time?

reading comprehension ftw...

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Well have never tried it ,but to my knowledge you CANNOT sign on to both accounts from the same computer, but you can from diff computers. Do diff ip addresses matter? not sure. apologize for any misunderstandings...Just hope merge security can treat this matter in a proper civil manner, which up to this point, they haven't. thanks again for all feeback....

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It's bad for the network because it costs skins money to take your deposits and we don't really know the financial relationship in general between skins. But this is why you can't transfer funds between skins. There's generally a reason for this type of thing. If you decide to make your own rules, the consequences can be severe even if you think you aren't hurting anyone

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Just to update situation, never did get a response from carbon or anyone from merge but problem was resolved 100 percent as of right now. lets say this was a slap on the wrist and i do appreciate everyones imput and carbons somewhat quick resolution (3 days).

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MY 1ST my 1st assumption is tht u wanted to cashout from a 2nd skin since u hit your max cashout on the other

i dont think its illegal to lose in a tourney thn goto your other name and re enter,i have done this on ub/ap

it allowed it and i dont think its wrong if the site allows it ,i mean its costing u more money to do this

plus i had a guy call me a cheater cuz he knew both my names on ap/ub i told him to snitch me off and they told him that i was fine.i only re entered out of tilt and was hoping to get the same tbl again,it never happened and i think it backfired making any money 100% of the time for me

its a form a re entry and if the site allows for this than so be it..........ive always figured tht this happens on the sunday majors on merge anyhow ,especially during maximus

chip dumping from the same acct holder seems ludicrous and idont think u can even do this if u tried

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see this is what i was bringing up in the thread that scissorme started about LockOps...he wanted to know if he could just make a lock account for Lock ops and use a laptop to grind the tourney series without having to switch all his action over from his normal skin.

the answer was, yes, its very possible to do this. furthermore, its possible to do this and enter into the same tourneys as not everyone who figures this out will be so honest and legit about it...i'm sure this issue is a problem, whether or not people want to think it is.

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Actually this thread proved the opposite. That while it is legal to have accounts on multiple skins, it is not legal to enter the same events with more than one account. Seems like Merge did a good job in this particular case. They identified a chip dump, locked up the accounts, the OP was honest about what he was trying to do and got off with a warning instead of being permanently locked out from Merge. Everything here seems reasonable and Merge did its due diligence on the situation.

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it doesnt matter jaxon, of course its not "legal" to do it, but the entire issue i'm raising is that its not stopped or prevented by merge and its not even flagged or anything unless it involves money being moved off one skin like in cases of chip dumping.

and as the OP said himself, he doesnt personally do it(ermm) but he knows first hand you can register any number of accounts from the same IP into the same tournaments; even if they all have the same personal information....

now think about the implications of that, and what a half-way smart group of cheaters could do without even needing proxies air cards, etc

i dont understand why you deleted my posts in the other thread, i know scissor me isnt trying to use this to cheat people, but its not about what legitimate people will do with this loophole, its about the potential problems it allows and I can almost assure you exist on merge.

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it was flagged because he tried to move money off one skin to another, not because two accounts with or without the same personal information were logged into merge at the same time from the same IP.

and no offense, i'm not sure how you could miss it, since this is the only issue i was raising in that thread about LockOps.

again, merge does not stop, flag or detect this unless its chip dumping as a means to transfer funds between skins which would otherwise be impossible to do.

do you see the problem here?

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I don't see the problem being logged in on the same IP, if you can quote a post where a person with account under his name on the same IP entered the same event or cash game and weren't flagged please quote it.

If you are talking about poker houses with different people with shared IPs entering the same tourney, Stars also lets this happen as well with small field sized tourneys, but not cash games (same as Merge's policy). I feel the field sizes should be large to allow this to happen, but this is a different case than the OP and there is a thread already discussing that. The OP's case as far as i can tell was properly flagged and is not an example of this paragraph. Please post in the multiple IP thread about this topic further if this is the point you want to discuss.

FYI - I am not saying there aren't issues with Merge and all US rake based sites. In my opinion there are some glaring ones. I just feel this thread was an example of something that Merge did right instead of something they did wrong or ignored.

If you want to post further about multiple IPs, here is the thread. http://www.pocketfives.com/f10017/multiple-accounts-same-ip-address-662658/

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