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Deep in the $11 1.5K turbo

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This hand happened between Drew and me in the $11 $1.5K turbo. There were 11 or 12 left and Drew was CL and I was either 2nd or 3rd. What do you do differently each street and what do you do on the river. I think he can have some bluffs here after I check the turn knowing I'll probably fold ace high and pocket pairs. I could be wrong but that's what I thought at the time.

Merge - $0+$0|<> NL - Holdem - 5 players

Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BarryGreenberg (SB): 50,934

DrewPeacoq8 (BB): 190,646

Diam0ndDixiee (UTG):107,600

Gobnuggett (CO): 33,388

STEVEVEVE (BTN): 63,854

5 players post ante of 600, BarryGreenberg posts SB 3,000, DrewPeacoq8 posts BB 6,000

Pre Flop: (pot: 12,000) Diam0ndDixiee has Qc Ah

Diam0ndDixiee raises to 12,000, fold, fold, fold, DrewPeacoq8 calls 6,000

Flop : (30,000, 2 players) 6h Kd 8s

DrewPeacoq8 checks, Diam0ndDixiee bets 9,999, DrewPeacoq8 calls 9,999

Turn : (49,998, 2 players) Qh

DrewPeacoq8 checks, Diam0ndDixiee checks

River : (49,998, 2 players) 8c

DrewPeacoq8 bets 20,324, Diam0ndDixiee??

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AFink93    190

Turbo just get it in pre and dont mess around post flop.. Your not deep enough to make any moves post flop unless you smash the flop. As played probably let it go. Hes out of the BB could have anything. Plenty of K's and 8's in range. Id probably fire another bullet on turn. He hasnt shown any strength yet. But could be a trap. Playing OOP sucks.. Like I said get it in pre in the Turbos and you dont have to worry about these decisions.

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I'm not OOP he is? 18bb is a lot to shove, especially in a turbo and with a hand as strong as AQ and the shorter stacks at the table who are likely the shove lots of worse hands it makes more sense to raise rather than fold out all the hands these guys will jam over my open with, at least that was my plan at the time.

Agree I should have fired the turn.

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fielden1982    0

You're beat and he isn't folding IMO. Your stack is a little awkward. For me, I think you are slightly too deep to open ship although it is an option pre only because of the blinds and antes totalling 12k, this would grow your stack by over 10% which makes the shove definitely profitable. Although looking at the rest of the stacks on the table you don't mind inducing a ship with the min raise but you could happily put the pressure on by open shipping. At the end of the day you cover all but one on the table and five handed you definitely are most likely to have the best hand. After you raise pre you have to C bet this board because it is so dry and unlikely connect, after he check calls the flop it's rare for him to complete pre and do this with air so your ace high has to be beat, you could fire again on the turn but his most likely holding is Kx realistically maybe like a K-10, KJ. This is not folding to a second barrel so dont know what barelling again would achieve, I like the check behind turn assess river line, and the fold on the river is fine. So as played I think its fine at every stage.

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allani12    1

I would check flop and not cbet vs a competent reg cause i dont expect them to fold to a standard cbet.I call if villain bets the turn or if he checks i bet turn.As for the river i value bet if villain checks or i fold if villain bets both turn and river.As played i fold river bet it looks really strong and the sizing looks like valuetown. B12ATM

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Sessesseko    0

I think that on the turn if villain had a K, or other value hands, he would bet to protect because there are two hearts and KQ on the board, so we could be on a number of draws by now. Villain knows that the bet looks like value town, so he could easily be betting that amount to look strong. I dont think that villain is that polarized here, because of the check on the turn.

As played, I would call the river.

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You're beat and he isn't folding IMO. Your stack is a little awkward. For me, I think you are slightly too deep to open ship although it is an option pre only because of the blinds and antes totalling 12k, this would grow your stack by over 10% which makes the shove definitely profitable. Although looking at the rest of the stacks on the table you don't mind inducing a ship with the min raise but you could happily put the pressure on by open shipping. At the end of the day you cover all but one on the table and five handed you definitely are most likely to have the best hand. After you raise pre you have to C bet this board because it is so dry and unlikely connect, after he check calls the flop it's rare for him to complete pre and do this with air so your ace high has to be beat, you could fire again on the turn but his most likely holding is Kx realistically maybe like a K-10, KJ. This is not folding to a second barrel so dont know what barelling again would achieve, I like the check behind turn assess river line, and the fold on the river is fine. So as played I think its fine at every stage.

I tend to think a king is his least likely holding, mb KT or KJ but since we're short handed and he should know that I'm likely to be stealing with a wide range knowing I'm very likely to get folds all around and knowing that I know I look strong raising EP off 18bb with a big stack in the BB, I can have a reasonable amount of hands I fold to the 3 bet or jam, I think he's somewhat likely to 3 bet with KT+. (I tend to think this is definitely a I know, he knows I know he knows spot). I don't see him defending with a lot of weak kings since they play so poorly against an EP raise. I tend to think he's much more likely to have a 6 or 8. 57s, 79s, or he might have 22 - 55 but again I think he likely jams these.

I also don't think we're always beat since he is very capable of betting a missed draw, especially since I checked the turn. I don't think he bets a 6 or any pp. He's either betting for value or he's bluffing and he knows how to size his bet to look like he's betting for value even if he's bluffing.

I haven't played him a ton but I imagine he knows I post here a lot and that's where I know more about him than actually in game but I would think he has a clue that I have a clue.

As for betting the turn when the Q hits, I definitely think he folds a 6, 8, small PP and maybe str8 draws if I do. I doubt he folds a weak king but as I said I doubt he has a weak king. I'm pretty sure betting the turn is profitable and will get a fold more often than not.

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allani12    1

I dont think villain is 3btng with k10 vs an early pos open against a random his 3b range should be 77+ ajs+ with these stack sizes.Villains flatting range should consist of kq kj k10 k9s qj type hands so a k is very likely. Again this does depend on the villains image of hero . B12ATM

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I dont think villain is 3btng with k10 vs an early pos open against a random

LOL,okay! I guess you put me in my place.

Against a random no and neither would I but against a reg that I know is capable of understanding that he/she can open fairly wide in EP with an 18bb stack because he/she's raise will be viewed as strong and is very likely to get through I might consider a reasonably wide 3 bet.

You are right in that it depends on villains view of hero.

I'm sure there are kings in his range but I still think other hands are a little more likely.

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fielden1982    0

I'm not so sure that he would generally three bet a hand like K10 or KJ OOP pre against your UTG raise , the table is five handed yes but three betting there is a big mistake IMO because it is inflating the pot with a good but not premium holding and it is turning the hand into a bluff essentially with these stacks. If you four bet he is truly hating it and mucking probably. His range of course is open endeds with 79 and 57 which would play the hand the same.. Ax hands which hit the 6 and 8 but would not play this way... these are more likely to check call the river for the most part. Which leaves missed straight draws and those Kx hands which are betting for value. Its up to you I guess relative to the pot size to work out what percentage of the time he is doing this with both and if you think the call is proftable based on your reads on the player. I am still sticking to Kx betting for value more than the missed draws.

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i think he will be defending a lot of kx hands here in the bb none of which i think fold to a turn barrel, i assume he knows you can be fairly wide opening here but jamming just seems spewy when you get such a good price to call with good post flop hands

dont really love barreling turn as i think he can put us in real tough spots c/j some kx two pair and also draw hands on the turn as you will have a wider air/draw range on turn than value imo (checking back a lot of showdown hands for pot control), as played i probably call river but not especially happy about it

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i think he will be defending a lot of kx hands here in the bb none of which i think fold to a turn barrel, i assume he knows you can be fairly wide opening here but jamming just seems spewy when you get such a good price to call with good post flop hands

dont really love barreling turn as i think he can put us in real tough spots c/j some kx two pair and also draw hands on the turn as you will have a wider air/draw range on turn than value imo (checking back a lot of showdown hands for pot control), as played i probably call river but not especially happy about it

This pretty much sums up my thinking in the hand. I felt the Q on the turn gave me showdown value and didn't see the purpose of putting myself in a tough spot in case he did have a king or some 2 pair hand or decided he could put pressure on me with a c/j. I feel as played the river call isn't bad but I didn't love it at all.

...and yeah he can have a few kings in his range but that's only a small part of his flatting range, not sure what I was thinking when I said it was the least likely.

He actually had something like 89s or 78s I can't remember which but I was beat.

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DrewPeacoq8    0

I remember this hand. My 3b range here is gonna be small, but not necessarily the top part of my range... and with all the stack sizes and being short handed, I'm planning on using my stack to put you in shitty spots. I prob even flat my biggest of hands because I think you'd fold a lot preflop in this spot. I MAY c/r with a big hand I flatted pre if I thought you really liked the flop, but I'd also do it with some bluffs since I think you will cbet too much hoping to just take down the pot since it'll add a good portion to your stack..

I don't hate the way you played it and with no specific reads this may be the default line most would take. I do like what a poster above said about not cbetting against someone you know can put you in difficult spots - This also allows you to play the hand easier sometimes.

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