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FrankDaFish

Tired of Carbon Poker changes

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Hey all,

Just wanted to see if anyone else is fed up with Carbon Poker? They have been steadily raising their rake in ring games over the years and there has been a number of things since I tried grinding up a roll again that has made me realize I don't wanna grind on their site anymore. First off, their 200% deposit bonus is completely whack. I deposited $250 recently in the hopes I could clear $500 worth of bonus $ then quickly realized they release $10 of that bonus money for every 1500 player points you earn which is ridiculous… I also realized they got rid of heads up cash tables which does't make any sense to me since hu .25/.50 and .50/1 plo is my fav cash game to play and easiest to earn a lot of player points. Another small but annoying thing is I still haven't received a $10 free bet in the sports book for getting top 25 in a World Cup Freeroll and I have talked to live chat three times now and still have not gotten the free bet… The final straw for me today was when I realized you can't use player points for tourney buy-ins! Literally player points are only good for clearing bonuses…. so fkin ridiculous. Seems to me they are struggling pretty hard and because of that they are doing things that are detrimental to their player pool.

Anyone have any recommendations where I should play? Is Bovada a good place? Carbon literally has been the only site I have played on since Black Friday so it sucks to withdraw my cash from it but the way they are running the site is horrible imo so I'm taking my $ elsewhere.

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I play on Carbon as well and I hate it now. The long late reg with all the ridiculous changes along with being able to reenter an absurd amount of times. Holdem Manager isn't working now and the new replayer is awful. The fields are small and the prize pools are small as well. No player to player transfers and 6 weeks to get a check. It is the pits but right now I can't play anywhere else so I guess I have to live with it.

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You could try Americas Cardroom, Black Chip Poker, Juicy Stakes or Bovada. Those are the only sites available in the US that I know of. Not sure on Bovada because I haven't played there in years but ACR, BCP and Juicy are slow paced per hand compared to Carbon.

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I play on Bovada and Carbon. Bovada has its issues too. The reentry on Carbon is just stupid. The last 20 minutes of reentry folks are buying in for 6 Bigs. Sometimes more than 50 will do this. There is value but good grief sometimes you are hand for hand before reentry is over and then you are back out of hand for hand still not in the money. Just lol.

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The value is tremendous. People giving you tons of EV and free money upsets you?

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Kahn

Kinda tried of this logic^ Its had nearly the same feel as short stacking in a cash game. Youre basically playin against and infinite stack. Everybody with half a brain would and does realize that it increases variance. (which most wont like dont have the BR to deal with) Is bad for the game for everyone involved, fish hate it, regs prob should hate it, if they subscribe to ICM

Also heard at the tables that there are no more free cashouts. 3pct rake on cash outs. wonder if that rumor is true.

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All of the changes that they make are so anti player that its stunning. They have scaled back the points system to the point that they are basically useless now. The tourney schedule during the week isn't very good, idk when they did it but at some point they just removed the Nightly $60. For me it is still worth playing there because the fields tend to be really soft, but if they switch to anonymous tables (which i could see happening in the not so distant future) that will probably be my breaking point.

The problem is finding a viable replacement. Bovada has a really good schedule but I hate the anonymous tables and the software isn't great. I like the software better on BlackChip, and there cashouts are really fast. but the Tourney schedule leaves a lot to be desired, hopefully the network will grow with this $1 million gtd, and with it the tourney schedue will improve.

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Sorry I was wrong about hu tables. Releasing 75k player points for the $500 bonus is ridiculous though and that's not misinformation, that's just my opinion. I was pissed when I posted this and now realize there really isn't a better option and all we can hope is for them to make improvements in the future. I guess I will have to stick with Carbon for the meantime… thanks for the input all

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I think what you, and many people are failing to consider here is the soft player pool. The games these days are pretty damned good. Near Bovada quality IMHO. I'm happy to give up rewards in order to get really fishy tables. I can see where other people might feel differently. But this is how poker was when I went pro 11+ years ago. There was no rakeback. One had to win money at the tables. And b/c poker is an economy/ecology, when rewards are removed, so are regs who depend on them. What is left is a better recreational:regular ratio, and the profit (bb/100) improves accordingly for many winning players (those that stick around to find out).

--

Kahn

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I think what you, and many people are failing to consider here is the soft player pool. The games these days are pretty damned good. Near Bovada quality IMHO. I'm happy to give up rewards in order to get really fishy tables. I can see where other people might feel differently. But this is how poker was when I went pro 11+ years ago. There was no rakeback. One had to win money at the tables. And b/c poker is an economy/ecology, when rewards are removed, so are regs who depend on them. What is left is a better recreational:regular ratio, and the profit (bb/100) improves accordingly for many winning players (those that stick around to find out).

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Kahn

The only reason the games are getting easier is because they are restricting and banning all of the winners.

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Now only 1 free withdrawal per year, lol. It's almost like they are daring their customers to leave the site. The only good thing that I can think of that they have done in the last 6 months for the players is shorten late reg to a reasonable time, and they even sped up the tourney structures to do that. But idk, maybe they are geniuses and they know that a lot of people don't like playing on anonymous Bovada Tables, and the ones that do aren't leaving for Merge, and Winning network doesn't have enough traffic to maintain a good MTT schedule so they are just maximizing their profit because they feel like the demand for their site is inelastic.

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Now only 1 free withdrawal per year, lol. It's almost like they are daring their customers to leave the site. The only good thing that I can think of that they have done in the last 6 months for the players is shorten late reg to a reasonable time, and they even sped up the tourney structures to do that. But idk, maybe they are geniuses and they know that a lot of people don't like playing on anonymous Bovada Tables, and the ones that do aren't leaving for Merge, and Winning network doesn't have enough traffic to maintain a good MTT schedule so they are just maximizing their profit because they feel like the demand for their site is inelastic.

I have no idea why someone would not want to play on Bovada anonymous or not. You have to be retarded to not be playing there at this point.

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Now only 1 free withdrawal per year, lol. It's almost like they are daring their customers to leave the site. The only good thing that I can think of that they have done in the last 6 months for the players is shorten late reg to a reasonable time, and they even sped up the tourney structures to do that. But idk, maybe they are geniuses and they know that a lot of people don't like playing on anonymous Bovada Tables, and the ones that do aren't leaving for Merge, and Winning network doesn't have enough traffic to maintain a good MTT schedule so they are just maximizing their profit because they feel like the demand for their site is inelastic.

does Bovada have a vip system? with the recent changes to getting your money out, I think I'm done with carbon. You can bend me over every which way but when you charge me to actually take money out, that is the final straw.. It's the reason I left Poker Host originally

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does Bovada have a vip system? with the recent changes to getting your money out, I think I'm done with carbon. You can bend me over every which way but when you charge me to actually take money out, that is the final straw.. It's the reason I left Poker Host originally

Not really, but the games are amazing and they pay you within days. They also won't ban you for winning too much money.

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I think what you, and many people are failing to consider here is the soft player pool. The games these days are pretty damned good. Near Bovada quality IMHO. I'm happy to give up rewards in order to get really fishy tables. I can see where other people might feel differently. But this is how poker was when I went pro 11+ years ago. There was no rakeback. One had to win money at the tables. And b/c poker is an economy/ecology, when rewards are removed, so are regs who depend on them. What is left is a better recreational:regular ratio, and the profit (bb/100) improves accordingly for many winning players (those that stick around to find out).

--

Kahn

AT first this seemed very shilliish (kinda would like a full disclosure statement at some point, or link to one if one has already been made) , but upon doing the math I suppose it seems reasonable.

This obviously remains to be seen, but in real terms lets say your a MTT player with a 20pct+ ROI and you make $2500 profit in one month

total playthrough $12.5k rake=$1250

under the old reneg rakeback: -$437.50 ROI = 23.5%

under old VIP points (@15pct effective) = -$187.50 ROI= 21.5%

under new VIP (approx @9ct plus playthtrough) = -$112.50 ROI= 20.9%

under no VIP new 3pct cashout rake = -$75 ROI = 17% (i havent confirmed this yet)

so essentially you need to make $512.50 more pre-rackback reneg. or $262.50 pre-VIP reneg. in order to "make the softer-pool will be better" statement true, it needs 4.5 pct ROI softer. Which I suppose is doable though i really doubt this is the case personally. It may get that way eventually. But then again the games could also die down make it harder to rake that much in a month, or they could increase making it easier. Well see what happens. The cashout 3pct feels the worse of all these tbh. Think the way bovada hits ya (4-5pct on a depo is much easier to swallow and probably nets way more, and looks way better image-wise)

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It's only softer because they are banning or table capping the winners. I love how the affiliates are touting a "softer" pool like it's not the same players that have been on the network since we all started playing here in 2011. It's not softer, it's back to normal since Merge decided to ring fence all the fishy skins starting last may w/ cash and SNGs and completely in October.

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I agree with all points made above. VIP point being swiped is just a dogshit move. Re-registation makes the tournies a craps shoot. Also I'm not trying to wear a tin foil hat and shit but has anyone noticed that they run fucking horrible after they request a cash out. I understand variance well but just to kind of test things the other day I started playing $1 and $2 HU SnGs (what most people go right to when they get their $5 bonus). I crush HU SnGs and literally I have people pull 2/3 outers up to 5 times in one match. When I have them short stacked, they get 50/50, I short stack em again and again only to have them win. No emotion involved on my part as they were chump change. It's just something I noticed. I've been running insanely well live so it had me scratching my head.

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