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rayspizza

Trumpcare

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That seems about the most impossible thing I can think of. When one party has far more marbles, the other party will demand great things to give up even more marbles.

Yeah, that was my moment of hopefulness, it's gone now.

Insurance across state lines is going to be a head-ache at first because of the different laws in each state, but it wouldn't take long to adjust.

Imagine if we could only get credit cards from the state you live in what fees would be like.

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Why shouldn't Democrats be in favor of that?

Educate me on how less choices and competition are good for the consumer and bad for the insurance companies.

LOL at thinking having an insurance-based healthcare system is efficient. The consumers will always get screwed. Weeping Jesus on the cross if the freedom caucus's big solution is more insurance, then I can tell you right now it's shit.

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Yeah, that was my moment of hopefulness, it's gone now.

Insurance across state lines is going to be a head-ache at first because of the different laws in each state, but it wouldn't take long to adjust.

Imagine if we could only get credit cards from the state you live in what fees would be like.

What's the headache with different laws?

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Purchasing insurance across state lines is a provision outside the scope of reconciliation. To pass something not in reconsilliation would require 60 votes rather than a simple majority. That provision was specifically left out of Ryan's bill (by Ryan). It's thought that in phase 3 (good luck ever getting there) it might then be included.

That might have something to do with the fact that Paul Ryan has taken 4.2 million dollars from the insurance lobby or maybe it's the 5.6 million Mitch Mc Connell has taken.

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That might have something to do with the fact that Paul Ryan has taken 4.2 million dollars from the insurance lobby or maybe it's the 5.6 million Mitch Mc Connell has taken.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. We should also pay attention to who gets what from the rest of the healthcare cartel, hospital corps and pharma.

I thought Paul Ryan was an economist? I remember when I had hopes for the dude.

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What's clear is that Obamacare is ailing. The Repubs are not going to lift a finger to prop it up in any way. They're hell bent on killing the evil beast because they fucked up and put the black bastard's name on it and they don't want history to record this as a success. Trump is about as dumb as a box of rocks but understands that this replacement bill is an abject failure and so he's distancing himself from it every way he can. It's the only thing he's ever refused to put his name on.

Ryan spent the day trying to link himself, Trump, Senate Leaders, and the man on the street to this bill KNOWING Trump is getting ready to make him the fall guy when this fails like a fart in church.

All these people have a golden opportunity to pull a terrific accomplishment from the ashes here that they can crow about the rest of their political careers. All they need to do is think outside the box a little bit. They need a guy who's a leader.....hmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,I wonder who among them claims that title?

They can call it OTcare (symantics) as long as it fixes the problem.

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LOL at thinking having an insurance-based healthcare system is efficient. The consumers will always get screwed. Weeping Jesus on the cross if the freedom caucus's big solution is more insurance, then I can tell you right now it's shit.

Would the same exact system as we have now except for the ability for the consumer to buy insurance across state lines be better or worse than what we have now?

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A public option is the only thing that would really get the insurance companies attention. If that existed with the buying power of huge numbers of people the insurance companies would need to decide if they prefer to be dead or alive.

Buying insurance across state lines only works if they want to sell it. If you live in a market where margins are weak, they'd just refuse to play. That's why many markets are left to just one carrier now.

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In a perfect world, if the Freedom Caucus (and Arron_Hacker) got their way, Obamacare would be repealed and the insurance industry would be free to write their own plans. Americans would get far less coverage, They would need to "prove" every little element of their illness or injury before service is available, lifetime limits, pre-existing conditions, kids would be required to get their own coverage at age 19 and all the rest.

The costs might well explode because they would again be negotiating with individuals rather than large groups.

It would be such a disaster Trump might not last a month through the confusion and anger he'd be held responsible for.

He said repeal and replace. No one put words into his mouth.

I read an article the other day that said once the title of the argument became "repeal and replace" Obama/raisethis2 won. It should have always just been full repeal. Huge branding "mistake" made by Paul Ryan. We don't want this BS plan. We want Rand Care. He should've been President anyway but we all hated Washington so much that we got Trump.

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Actually, very very early on Trump was saying repeal. In the last 3 months or so he modified his pitch to repeal and replace.

That's my recollection.

I think he and others all were trying to move more to the center and Trump's rhetoric stuck.

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Actually, very very early on Trump was saying repeal. In the last 3 months or so he modified his pitch to repeal and replace.

That's my recollection.

I think he and others all were trying to move more to the center and Trump's rhetoric stuck.

That's why I think that his support for the house bill is just to unite the party. Whatever the senate can come up with that will pass through reconciliation will be the plan that they go with. That plan will be much to the right of the current house plan. The house plan is DOA in the senate. Paul/Cruz and company aren't bluffing.

Whether they repeal or not, Obamacare collapses in <2 years. Whether ppl like Obamacare is irrelevant. It will cease to exist during Trump's tenor one way or another.

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A poll was released just today indicating that Obamacare is more popular than the new GOP plan. Imagine that........

Obamacare, if not repealed, will need some adjustments. That's certain. If it's repealed with no replacement the mid-terms will be a 50 seat blood bath in the House.

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Would the insurance consumer be able to get the exact same coverage for more or less money?

How do I know the exact same insurance would be even be available? That seems like quite an assumption. The factors are not independent, so ano immediate pre - post comparison wouldnt be a valid approach, Am I waiting a few months/years for the market to adjust? If I wait how do I adjust for other confounding factors that entered the equation? What do consider a significant differenice 5%? 10%? 20%?

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sigh....

Medicare fee schedules says prices are already fixed guys, that's been part of the problem. So frustrating.

Can anyone come up with a successful example of government price fixing? I mean, we have to be talking about our salaries too right?

sigh... medicare fee schedules are just a tool to keep costs from escalating. That's really not part of the problem. The problem is most doctors don't want to see medicare patients. I bet you can guess why.

I can't honestly give you an example of successful price fixing. But I've never been in a more helpless negotiating position than when my daughter needed her appendix removed either.

Salaries yes. Drug price collusion yes. Endless, exorbitant and unnecessary testing yes. Fraudulent billing yes. The list goes on and on. But if you think medicine is no different than any other marketplace, maybe the poor should just tough it out.

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LOL @ "make sense". His logic dictates that we also socialize food, housing & clothing because those are also all "services we need" and yet not everyone can pay for the same quality.

Thanks for extending my logic. Not what I said or meant, but you know that. Nice try. I meant that medicine is the one area where prices cannot be reasonably contained with out artificial measures. That much has to be obvious by now.

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Thanks for extending my logic. Not what I said or meant, but you know that. Nice try. I meant that medicine is the one area where prices cannot be reasonably contained with out artificial measures. That much has to be obvious by now.

No, it isn't.

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sigh... medicare fee schedules are just a tool to keep costs from escalating. That's really not part of the problem. The problem is most doctors don't want to see medicare patients. I bet you can guess why.

I can't honestly give you an example of successful price fixing. But I've never been in a more helpless negotiating position than when my daughter needed her appendix removed either.

Salaries yes. Drug price collusion yes. Endless, exorbitant and unnecessary testing yes. Fraudulent billing yes. The list goes on and on. But if you think medicine is no different than any other marketplace, maybe the poor should just tough it out.

FDRs idiotic salary control on manufacturing is how insurance got tied to employment to begin with. If you weren't allowed to pay a higher salary, you would have to offer attractive bennie packages.

I'm in a profession that is in demand. Freeze our salaries and you will see us offered less hours and more vacation. What do you think that does to the demand when the supply is limited like that? I'm just a PT, imagine what doctors will be able to negotiate. Only gonna pay me 100K a year? fine, I'll see you 2 days a week. Now we have crisis...

Think it through, look at the history of price control, it's not pretty.

I hate that you had to see your daughter go through that, it's tough on a parent, but if you could have gotten your daughter's surgery at a stand alone outpatient surgical center it would have been a fraction of the cost. It's a shame the government limits when and where those can be built.

You know how doctors are combating the reimbursement of medicare? They are becoming hospital employees. Let's just take a stress test as an example of what medicare does for the cartel. If a cardiologist works for himself, he'll get around 800 bucks in his office. If he is an employee, he'll get around 2000 bucks in his office, the hospital will take their cut. 50 years ago 90% of doctors were in private practice, today it's less than half and declining.

There are many ways we can reduce costs. The increased fee schedule for hospitals over private practice for the exact same treatment (even done at the exact same place) was a gift for them letting EMTALA pass.

It's rare today if you see a single practice young doctor and that saddens me. It's even rarer to see your own doctor if you go to the hospital. That one doesn't bother me as much, I like our hospitalists.

I mentioned the fact that we already have price control in medicine because someone was saying that's what we need. What a fee schedule does is guarantee we can't cut prices. I'm going to get what I get from caid/care for a service I provide no matter what I charge, even if I try to charge less.

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How do I know the exact same insurance would be even be available? That seems like quite an assumption. The factors are not independent, so ano immediate pre - post comparison wouldnt be a valid approach, Am I waiting a few months/years for the market to adjust? If I wait how do I adjust for other confounding factors that entered the equation? What do consider a significant differenice 5%? 10%? 20%?

You just don't want to answer the question. That's clear to anybody reading.

If absolutely NOTHING else changed except that I could buy my insurance from insurers in any state, prices would obviously drop and there is no reason to think that the same insurance wouldn't be available.

It's odd to me because I am not singling out either side for dropping the ball here. Why wouldn't the Dems or the GOP simply do this as a goodwill gesture to the people. It would have been an excellent PR move for the Dems while they were passing Obamacare and it would be a smart move for the GOP now.

We both know the reason they won't, and that is the root of most our economic issues. Our government, BOTH SIDES, are bought and paid for by lobbyists. There are hundreds if not thousands of ways that our tax dollar could be stretched farther across dozens of industries if not for our representatives being in the pockets of people like raisethis2.

Big government proponents love to place the blame on the top 1% when the blame really needs to be placed on the people that allow themselves to be bought off by the top 1%.

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FDRs idiotic salary control on manufacturing is how insurance got tied to employment to begin with. If you weren't allowed to pay a higher salary, you would have to offer attractive bennie packages.

I'm in a profession that is in demand. Freeze our salaries and you will see us offered less hours and more vacation. What do you think that does to the demand when the supply is limited like that? I'm just a PT, imagine what doctors will be able to negotiate. Only gonna pay me 100K a year? fine, I'll see you 2 days a week. Now we have crisis...

.

Doesn't the fact that doctors can demand any salary they want make you think they have a little too much power? I'm saying that mentality is pervasive in medicine and healthcare. And if the government doesn't put its foot down, costs will continue to escalate far ahead of inflation. Insurance companies dgaf about costs. They just pass them on or try to wiggle out of paying. Nobody is watching out for the consumer. And there will be no affordable care until government holds up a stop sign.

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Doesn't the fact that doctors can demand any salary they want make you think they have a little too much power? I'm saying that mentality is pervasive in medicine and healthcare. And if the government doesn't put its foot down, costs will continue to escalate far ahead of inflation. Insurance companies dgaf about costs. They just pass them on or try to wiggle out of paying. Nobody is watching out for the consumer. And there will be no affordable care until government holds up a stop sign.

Get rid of all of the regulation and interference and it becomes more desirable to enter the field of medicine and then the above issue goes away.

Do you think the government should "put its foot down" and control the rates that lawyers bill?

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Get rid of all of the regulation and interference and it becomes more desirable to enter the field of medicine and then the above issue goes away.

Do you think the government should "put its foot down" and control the rates that lawyers bill?

You don't seem too familiar with the field of law.

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Doesn't the fact that doctors can demand any salary they want make you think they have a little too much power? I'm saying that mentality is pervasive in medicine and healthcare. And if the government doesn't put its foot down, costs will continue to escalate far ahead of inflation. Insurance companies dgaf about costs. They just pass them on or try to wiggle out of paying. Nobody is watching out for the consumer. And there will be no affordable care until government holds up a stop sign.

A doctor can't demand any salary they want, they can demand what the market will pay them. We have enough of a shortage of doctors that they have rural doctor programs that pay for school if you give x amount of years to a rural hospital. If you go to a VA, you will find mostly green card new grads because of the incentive programs they offer. What this does is give you a staff of mostly inexperienced doctors who speak poor English that turn over within a few years. I'm not knocking our foreign doctors because we welcome them, love them and hope they keep coming. There is a reason they come to the US instead of Venezuela.

The government caused the out of whack fee schedules favoring hospitals over private practice. The government caused the lack of competition for providers and centers by the CON program. The government limits the competition for insurance through state border laws. The government causes costs to rise through repetitive paperwork. The government caused insurance to be tied to employment through price fixing in the manufacturing sector. The government keeps costs from falling by not allowing direct access to a PT, OT, ST, NP or PA.

It's easy to point to the problems our government has caused and why costs have skyrocketed. Each new regulation imposed adds to the cost, that's been proven in all sectors. Why people think government is the magic daddy solution is beyond me. Yes, they have a function, shady people would do shady things without some of those regulations, but their involvement automatically is a cost addition. History has shown the more involvement, the more increase to cost. Why ignore history?

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Argue the details of the laws and plans all you want. It boils down to whether you believe in capitalism and free® markets or not. If you don't believe healthcare should be delivered by a free® markets and capitalism, you likely believe the government can do a better job of allocating resources than the private sector. That's the issue, not whether some plan will cost x or x people will be covered. There are a million rabbit holes to go down in the details, but if we can't agree on the basic underlying and applicable economic principals, then the rest is just mumbo jumbo.

There are basically three camps, the government should run things camp, the free market camp, and the political bullshit camp, which has brought us Obamacare and Trumpcare disasters. Time for a change.

I have always thought it odd that people who run corporations are greedy rotten bastards, well except for raisethis2, who is an honorable businessman who only steals enough from his employees and customers to make himself comfortable, yet people who run government and who are in charge of allocating our resources are capable, trustworthy, and efficient at their jobs, untouched by corruption, undue influence, and greed. ffs who do you people think runs this country?

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