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Did I play this wrong?

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nutzitch    10

WSOPE seniors tourney in Paris. Blinds are 150/300 with a 25 ante. Average stack around 25K. My stack about 22K.

in BB.

UTG plus 1 opens for 1200 (Kclubs, 10 Clubs)

UTG plus 2 calls (A K Hearts)

Cuttoff calls (QD, JC)

Small Blind Calls (unknown)

Action to me, JJ (red ones). I reraise to 4500, call, call, call, sb folds.

Flop comes out:

A (clubs) Q (clubs) J (spades).

Im first to act. I push for remaining 17K. All 4 call, most for their remaining stack.

Straight holds up.

Should I have raised more pre-flop?

  • #1

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cage    10

I think you should 3bet bigger to around 6k but I don't believe flatting would be a crime in this spot - fucking horrible run out for you either way because those chips be going in on this flop. Don't think you are first to act though, surely sb is first to act? ( Please excuse the pedantry ). Unlucky.

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cage    10

Yeah sorry misread hand re sb, often just flatting in this spot, totally read dependent of course, I don't really think there is any escape considering the plethora of draws on this board and flopping set with pot the size it is I reckon I be shipping too, bitch of a hand though.

  • #4

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negrealanu    10

Yuck. Tough beat and thanks for sharing. This is one of those "flops heard around the room" kind of scenarios, similar to a set over set over set. We feel for you.

Perhaps you can tell us a bit more about how these Seniors events play? Is 4x a standard size open? Do people fold to 3bets often?

I suspect there are a lot of stations, as evidenced by the QJo flat and the SB flat. The UTG open is reasonable, although his sizing is terrible because he really can't call any 3bets, despite him doing so anyway. Had he opened a normal size like 2.2x, he could actually have defended a 3bet, maybe.

Any who, back to hero...let's review our options: Fold, Call or Raise. Folding is out of the question, so it really comes down to treating this like a set-mine or getting super aggro. I think you went somewhere in between.

It seems like you felt it was a mandatory 3bet, but the problem is you are unlikely to find a sizing that accomplishes:

1) thinning the field down to a single player, and

2) actually getting a call

In this type of spot I would make sure your bet accomplishes one or the other and not both. That's how fatal mistakes can happen so often in this spot. It's definitely a choose your own adventure setting. This early in the tournament, I'm tempted to flat and set-mine (as cage mentioned). Perhaps it goes in on the flop anyway, but under normal circumstances you're going to be worried about over cards and lower coordinated boards with this many opponents in the hand. If you absolutely feel you need to 3bet this, choose a much larger sizing (6,500 - 7,000) that accounts for:

1) you being out of position,

2) lots of opponents, and

3) people are stationy and chip-drunk because you are so deep

8
  • #5

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FlopDeck    10

Certainly does look like an undersized 3-bet to me to be honest. We want to thin this field down here or just take down an uncontested pot and move on. We're too deep to shove i think, and with the 4x open + callers it's actually really hard to find an amount that will get the results we want here. I think you're better off completing pre than making this sized 3-bet as everyone is coming along anyway and you get the flop cards cheaper. However, i really don't like playing JJ multi-way like this either so personally i would 3-bet big, like 9500 here, and stack off to any 4-bet rip that doesn't come from the preflop raiser as that would just be so unbearably strong looking that JJ strength plummets, imo. FlatVsOpen-4-bet ranges are smashed by JJ more often than not i think. Pretty sick hand though dude, could that flop have had any more action? Crazy, thanks for posting.

  • #6

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nutzitch    10

Thanks and Agreed.

I cant really comment on Senior play, i was knocked out early and it was my first senior event. I can say that the French did not want to give up a hand in the levels of play that I was involved in. If they hit bottom pair on the flop they were going to call down to the river.

  • #7

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RedIceRap    10

Thanks and Agreed.

I cant really comment on Senior play, i was knocked out early and it was my first senior event. I can say that the French did not want to give up a hand in the levels of play that I was involved in. If they hit bottom pair on the flop they were going to call down to the river.

on this flop its a huge cooler. but if they go broke light postflop anyway i like flatting pre more. i see no reason buiilding the pot like this without AA/KK out of position vs a table full of stations.

1
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