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Full Tilt Lawyer: Criteria for U.S. Player Withdrawals Not Determined[ return to main articles page ]

By: Dan Cypra    [See all articles by Dan Cypra]
Published on Aug 2nd, 2012
Now that an agreement for PokerStars to purchase the assets of Full Tilt Poker via the U.S. Department of Justice is set, players have begun to wonder how much of their funds they'll see returned and how fast those payments will arrive. While non-U.S. players will go through PokerStars to be repaid, U.S. players will need to submit a claim with the Department of Justice. To address the process, and the sale as a whole, PocketFives sat down with Full Tilt Poker legal counsel Barry Boss.

Let's start with the U.S. repayment process, which Boss conceded isn't clear right now: "The criteria the DOJ will utilize to analyze claims by players in what is called the ‘remission process’ have not been set out for us yet. It's clear, though, that the DOJ will have plenty of money to administer. I anticipate that the remission process will be relatively straightforward and simple so that players can essentially just write in and request compensation. We'll work with the DOJ so they have access to Full Tilt's records to verify what players' account balances are. Either the DOJ or an appointed administrator will oversee distributing funds."

A Forbes article published on Tuesday indicated that U.S. players might only be paid back their deposits, as opposed to winnings. On that front, Boss told PocketFives, "For sure, there will be compensation to players. I hope that players will be able to obtain every dollar in their accounts, but ultimately we'll wait to see what the DOJ decides is appropriate and/or legal."

Originally, a person's designation of being U.S. or non-U.S. was their location as of April 14, 2011, but this has since been moved to June 29, which is when Full Tilt's gaming license was suspended. In September 2011, the Alderney Gambling Control Commission revoked Full Tilt's license on the grounds that the agency had been "misled."

On the overall process of selling Full Tilt, Boss noted that it was "a very complicated transaction with a lot of moving parts. In the end, player refunds were a top priority. Everybody is very happy and relieved that the players can be paid back. That has been the #1 objective for a long time. It doesn't resolve the charges against Ray Bitar, but he and all of the officers, directors, and members are in a better position if the players are compensated."

As part of the agreement with PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker, neither site admitted any wrongdoing. In fact, both are expressly permitted to seek U.S. gaming licenses from states or the Federal Government. Boss observed, "There was no admission of wrongdoing. The company takes the position that online poker was legal and that's a position they felt very strongly about."

Boss conceded that it is a fairly common provision in settlement agreements that the parties do not admit liability or wrongdoing.

You'll recall that Full Tilt's legal counsel was initially involved in discussions with Groupe Bernard Tapie, a France-based outlet with a history of turning around troubled firms. However, that deal fell through at the last minute. When asked if PokerStars' deal was superior to that offered by Tapie, Boss instantly responded, "This is exponentially better than any deal we could have made with anyone else."

Finally, Former Full Tilt Poker Payments Director Nelson Burtnick has turned himself into U.S. authorities and was released on bail. On Burtnick's situation, Boss told us, "Bitar and Burtnick are charged in the same superseding indictment. Obviously, there was a difference in their positions at Full Tilt: Ray was the CEO, while Nelson was lower in the hierarchy. By virtue of that, they are likely in different positions in the eyes of the Government."

PocketFives will continue to keep you posted on the latest.

Related Articles:

PokerStars Purchase of Full Tilt Finalized, Isai Scheinberg to Step Down

PokerStars: "We Plan to Reopen Full Tilt"

Full Tilt Apologizes to Customers Who "Endured a Long and Difficult Period"

PPA, Ray Bitar, Chris Ferguson Comment on Full Tilt Sale

Comments

  1. If we do not get our money back in full on the grounds that online poker being illegal, I ask this question.If Full Tilt Poker was a ponzi scheme, doesn't that make us as customers victims instead of criminals?
  2. The more I think about that recent Forbes article about Full Tilt players maybe not getting all their money, the more I can't get my mind around it.

    So let me get this straight. Preet Bharara negotiated the deal between the DOJ and Pokerstars to quote “allow us to quickly get significant compensation into victim players’ hands.” They called us 'victims.'


    Now that Pokerstars cut a check for THREE QUARTERS OF A BILLION DOLLARS for this purpose they say, "oh hey gee thanks, but to tell you the truth the asset forfeiture and money laundering division decides where all of this goes. But hey, we'll tell you what, we'll make a heavy duty recommendation with them, how does that sound?"


    What kind of horseshit is this? Now we have to rally for the money we've been promised all along by Pokerstars, Full Tilt, and the DOJ? You cannot collect taxes from us on past years from online gaming winnings, and then living in a house paid partially by our salaries, go "hey we think this was never legal, maybe we'll take your balance."


    The fact this is even a concern for us is appalling. Make us pay our taxes, sure, but to let us think for a minute...after all we've been through...that we may not get our balances?


    ...I'm speechless. I don't even know what to say.
    Edited By: Assassinato Aug 3rd, 2012 at 12:23 AM
  3. Well said assassinato- the other thing i cant get over is after all the DOJ has said about the fraud and money laundering committed by these companies, that they`re now allowed apply for licences and no admission of guilt?? I don`t think stars did that much wrong but the DOJ has taken a complete u-turn just to get their big pay-day- very deceptive
     1
  4.  
    Originally Posted by red_danger View Post

    Well said assassinato- the other thing i cant get over is after all the DOJ has said about the fraud and money laundering committed by these companies, that they`re now allowed apply for licences and no admission of guilt?? I don`t think stars did that much wrong but the DOJ has taken a complete u-turn just to get their big pay-day- very deceptive

    THe DOJ is so shady! Land base casino gambling 100% fine while online gambling is the worst thing ever? I thought the only reason online poker was illegal to begin with was because USA was getting its fair share of the profits and 100% of the tax money. How is the act of winning at poker online been a real crime?

    and then they will legalize online gambling and then it is ok????

    Doesn't make any sense to me!
  5. Let's see, first we get screwed by FTP and now we might get hosed by the DOJ. Wouldn't surprise me. As usual, the criminals have more leverage than the "victims".
  6. For all the USA poker players to write into the DOJ one at a time seems kind of pointless. Of course if you are owed anything, you want your money back. Why don't they just send us all a check and stop the BS.
  7. I agree with all of you guys and had a small amount of money on ft and really not much at stake here, and for the greater good of the poker community I wish the true grinders with huge accounts get paid, but it was my understanding that if the doj deemed it a "ponzi scheme" then basically the money was all fictional money in a sense and it's almost like nothing ever happened and in that regard, the money was never fully there to pay people back, so if everyone couldn't cash out and get their money, essentially it was fake and nothing really ever happened. In full tilts case I'm not sure how it's much different than the Madoff situation. People gave him money thinking it was safe and they would make money, but it was just a big scam. And based on what the dumbfucks at ft did to everyone they ran an illegal business and screwed everyone, but realistically at what point do you say that this person's money was good and profit, but the losing player's money was ok to be lost due to a ponzi scheme? The bottom line is that nobody's money was really every good on that site due to the situation. I'm just presenting the other side to this b.s. debacle. I have no problem losing my small amount of cash, but legally, it gets much more complicated than just paying back people that had balances if they determine nobody's money was really ever legit on that site. Just some food for thought, let the Chipcollecta bashing begin.
    Edited By: Chipcollecta21 Aug 4th, 2012 at 05:50 AM
    Reason: typo
 
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